Posted under Immigration
There’s been much anticipation, both online and off, within our circle of friends on Ron Unz’s latest TAC article. On the same TAC website their new blogger Rod Dreher asked what’s something conservative can’t say to which I replied the immigration debate is largely over with and the questions has been decided. Perhaps Mr. Unz and other conservatives (Tom Fleming said largely the same thing in Nation of Immigrants II edition of Chronicles) are also starting to blurt out the unsayable.
When Chronicles‘ first “Nation of Immigrants” issue came out in 1989 and when Alien Nation was released six years later in National Review, they came at a point int time when something could have been done in the immigration debate which would had a demographic affect to the nation as whole. This opportunity has long since past. The reason there is no national immigration policy is because there is no way such a policy could be constructed and pass Congress. So states and localities are free to do what they wish and in places like Georgia, Arizona and Alabama, they have done so. But as Unz pointed out, for all of Arizona’s restrictions, the fact of the matter is whites are a minority at the elementary school level. And has been pointed out, even if you could stop illegal immigration (which even the Obama Administration does as they have deported over hundred of thousands of illegals) even if you cut off welfare benefits for non-citizens (which one would think would be a matter of just sheer fairness), even if you raise the minimum wage to $12 as Unz proposes to prevent the kind of economic growth one sees in Texas and is passed off as a “miracle”, you still haven’t addressed “legal” immigration from around the world which takes place every day and is currently at numbers not seen since the turn of the 20th Century.
There are many interesting parts of the Unz piece but one aspect he failed to mention which we can pick up here is the aspect of “white flight” in the debate. Whites, as we’ve seen in recent history, react to demographic change by moving with their feet. Thus in California, for example, much of the sprawl which has spilled into the Inland Empire was largely caused by influx of immigrants which drove whites to live further and further away from Los Angeles or San Diego or the Central Valley . Developers responded to demand for cheap housing on dirt tracts and open spaces (as Steve Sailer would explain it) . This same economic driver I believe would still apply even in places that aren’t “exurbs”. I’m taking about the open spaces in the Plains states where the population is old and dying out and towns and counties are rapidly losing population. Again, one thing Unz did not mention was white flight, not just within California, but out of it as well. States like Texas, Oklahoma, Idaho, Arizona and Utah gained population from these migrants and made such states more Republican than they already were. Well such migration can happen in other states and metropolitan areas affected by immigration, not just California. And where will such people go? To where there is plenty of plenty of open land, open space and its dirt cheap to live. Throw in a oil and natural gas boom and persons who need jobs and there’s good reason why people would want to move to North Dakota. And by the way, every state gets two votes in the United States Senate.
There are many truths we hold dear and then there are those we cling to in the face of reality. The reality is, like it or not, the end of “white America” even if really never meant anything to most whites (certainly not to white poor). But all it means really is new directions and new strategies to pursue instead deluding ourselves as to what could be done. Despite what Unz says, most people are still gather themselves to what is familiar to them as the housing and demographic data show. And it will still be that way even if there are no majorities in the U.S.
Walter on 23 Sep 2011 at 12:56 pm #
What you write is unnecessarily defeatist. It is historically false to say that “nothing can be done” about immigration.
History is full of mass expulsions and mass deportations. In fact, when looking at history, mass expulsions and mass deportations are the norm, not the exception.
So, this is not a question of logistics, but it’s a question of politics and political willpower.
And even if the political willpower doesn’t exist now, it’s not to say it won’t exist at some future point, either at local or national levels.
And even without such expulsions, people who have looked at the question in minute detail believe it far from over. Serious enforcement measures (attrition through enforcement, etc.) could cause a self-exodus, and thus save large parts of the country from eventually becoming a sewer.
As many bloggers have pointed out, saying “nothing can be done about it now” is a tactic of the left in an attempt to manage willpower. Ron Unz’s piece ultimately fits into the puzzle — an attempt to silence European American discontent — and is thus a part of this disingenuous strategy.
Bruce on 23 Sep 2011 at 4:13 pm #
If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing you do is stop digging.
Patroon on 23 Sep 2011 at 10:05 pm #
“What you write is unnecessarily defeatist. It is historically false to say that “nothing can be done” about immigration.”
I’m not saying nothing can be done. What I am is saying is the opportunity to do something on the national when the politics were more in the favor of the restrictionists has come and gone. Forget it now.
“History is full of mass expulsions and mass deportations. In fact, when looking at history, mass expulsions and mass deportations are the norm, not the exception. So, this is not a question of logistics, but it’s a question of politics and political willpower. And even if the political willpower doesn’t exist now, it’s not to say it won’t exist at some future point, either at local or national levels.”
We deport illegals now if they’re caught. Who else are you intending to deport? The one’s who are here legally, who have their green cards? Okay, but if the political willpower doesn’t exist now (and I know of no to very few Republican willing to do this) then how is going to exist 10-20 years when the demographic situation get worse?
Matt Weber on 23 Sep 2011 at 11:02 pm #
Sean, you’ve noted the importance of white flight as a way for whites to basically evade the consequences of immigration, but for white flight to be effective there has to be somewhere to flee to. There will be for a while, but when there isn’t what do you think will happen?
I also wonder what are the odds that the coming fiscal and economic disasters will render the whole issue moot. Potential immigrants may some day conclude that it isn’t worth the effort to move here.
I agree somewhat with Unz that the racial divide is more white/black than white/nonwhite. I’ve actually wondered aloud on a few sites why there is this odd paradigm of white people vs. the rest of the world. I’d go further than Unz though and say that immigration, like almost every other divide, is mostly about whites fighting with themselves. Paradoxically, minorities don’t even really matter that much.
Kirt Higdon on 23 Sep 2011 at 11:08 pm #
While mass expulsions and deportations are all too common, they usually take place during or in the aftermath of bloody wars. The numbers which the anti-immigration maximalists want to see expelled are in the range of 12 to 30 million, numbers which exceed those ethnically cleansed from eastern Europe by the Communists in the wake of the German/Soviet war. Such a war would take in huge areas of the US, would depopulate many areas and cause the death of hundreds of thousands if not millions. Aside from a handful of fanatics, no one wants to see that happen, which is why among other reasons it won’t happen.
Walter on 23 Sep 2011 at 11:17 pm #
Kurt: What you write is just pro-immigration propaganda.
A policy of attrition would make most illegals delf-deport. If you make it so difficult for them to live here, they will voluntarily leave.
“Forget it now.”
Why? There are many areas of the country that could still be saved by sensible immigration policy:
- Enforcing immigration laws and removing illegals
- Ending legal immigration from the Third World
- Ending birthright citizenship
- Ending chain migration
Etc.
“The one’s who are here legally, who have their green cards?”
Again, using history as the norm (and not ideology), then citizenship has never been inviolable. Throughout history citizenship has often been revoked. Only American exceptionalism thinks citizenship to be inviolable.
J on 23 Sep 2011 at 11:47 pm #
Great quote from email:
The problem with Unz’s argument is that he assumes that Hispanics will assimilate the same way whites have. But there is a bit problem with this argument. About 98% of the Hispanics coming to the US aren’t Western.
As others have quoted at other websites:
The CIA World Fact books puts Mexico at:
60% Mestizo
30% Amerindian
and
less than 10% European
Using genetic testing, Ruben Lisker has found lower-class mestizos to be:
59% Amerindian
34% European (oft. Spaniard)
and 6% Black
Average mestizo IQ: 86
These people aren’t Western.
Kirt Higdon on 24 Sep 2011 at 4:31 am #
So Walter, are you then backing off of your advocacy of mass deportations and mass expulsions? Apparently not: you’re just renaming it. You advocate the expulsion of not only illegal immigrants, but legal ones and even citizens once their citizenship is revoked. Using history as you say as the norm and not ideology, this only happens accompanying or in the wake of bloody wars. If this is what you want, you can always try to start one, but I don’t think many people will have your back. In southern California and in south Texas, the two areas I lived in all my adult life, we’re getting along well with the mestizos. We don’t want war and we won’t be pushed into one.
Kirt Higdon on 24 Sep 2011 at 12:16 pm #
A race war of such low intensity that it’s not even noticed is very low intensity indeed, essentially just part of the background crime rate which has now been declining since the mid 1980s. Whites and blacks have waged an effective war against themselves through contraception and abortion. Anyone seriously upset about a decline in white population should address this problem – as I have both in advocacy and action. As far as the Hispanic “race war” against the whites, as far as I can observe, this mainly takes the former of intermarrying with them, which is usually termed making love not war.
Kirt Higdon on 25 Sep 2011 at 6:21 pm #
Editors – My above post was in reply to one by another poster which you have for some reason deleted. This will make late comers to the discussion wonder exactly what I am referring to. I don’t know why you deleted his post, but if you delete someone’s post, perhaps you should delete all others which reply or refer to it.
Patroon on 27 Sep 2011 at 7:12 am #
I’m not going to punish other posters for one person’s idiocy. If the gentleman in question wants to plot out a race war, he should do it at Stormfront, not here.
Where to flee to Matt? As I’ve said, there’s plenty of open land to move to in the Plains states. In fact, in every state in the country there are what’s known as “forgotten corners,” places away from the metropole, where mostly the old live and are perfect for settlement if the separatists wish to get away from what’s troubling them. Moving with one’s feet (or wagon train or car caravan) has been essential part of American cultural, political and historical development. Why should it be any different now.
As I said Walter, even the Obama Administration tries to enforce the law. So what’s the difference? If you make it difficult to live here some may go back and may very well recross the border, as they are want to do because they can make five times as much in the U.S. than Mexico or wherever they’ve come from. So long as employers are willing to hire, illegals are willing to risk it.
Patroon on 27 Sep 2011 at 12:47 pm #
It should also be pointed out this was the first census cycle since the 1800s when California did not gain at least one seat in the House of Representatives. Clearly all the people moving didn’t overtake all those moving out and it must have been considerable migration out of the Golden State to essentially keep the status quo.
Julian on 27 Sep 2011 at 4:39 pm #
Nicholas Stix write for Stormfront? That’s a good one.
As one who appreciates many of those brave souls who dare to criticize Jewish power, I can’t say I’m a big fan of Stix’s, as he is very much a knee-jerk anti ‘anti-Semite.’ But putting that aside, I don’t think his post deserved to be pulled. He wasn’t advocating a race war but stating he thinks one is happening and will continue. Considering the massive and unprecedented demographic changes we are undergoing, a future of continued racial or ethnic violence doesn’t seem that far-fetched.
Btw, thanks in large part to this country’s Prison Industrial Complex, crime is down. But whether many parts of the US are really any safer is another matter.
Matt Weber on 27 Sep 2011 at 5:04 pm #
Sean, I was wondering more about what happens when there is no more room than where I or anyone else would go at the moment. I’m not a separatist–my living habits are much more SWPL than WN.