13 thoughts on “Here is the Roll Call on the Debt Limit Cave

  1. Kirt Higdon

    The (quite possibly) fake Patroon has said he invites discussion on his interventionist advocacy on the Mali topic, but I find myself unable to post further comment on that topic. Has CHT been hijacked in whole or in part by neo-cons? Let’s see if I can post it on this topic.

    OMG. I’d find it hard to imagine even Kagan or The Weekly Standard coming up with such ridiculous interventionism. Mali is the middle of nowhere. Its best known city, Timbuktu, is proverbial for being the world’s most distant place from anywhere. The dread salafists already have Timbuktu and I’m supposed to worry that they might take (horrors!) Bamako. The French Foreign Legion to the rescue – aided by US airlift capability and US spec ops troops. (A couple of the latter were killed in an auto accident in Mali a few months ago, along with the Moroccan prostitutes who were accompanying them.) On the other hand, the news of the day is the openning of combat and spec ops positions in the US armed forces to women. As the evil empire’s armed forces increasingly become a socialist/feminist/sodomite collective, maybe we should just send all of them to Mali.

  2. Matt Weber

    I’m still not sure what you’re wanting to see here. What is your vision for how this should go, given that another stand on the debt ceiling would be politically disastrous?

  3. C Bowen

    Mr. Weber;

    Why do you care about Republican political prospects?

    Rather, what do you ascribe to the Republican Party that is relevant to a set of issues represented at this site?

  4. RedPhillips Post author

    Matt, whether or not the debt limit is the right place to pitch a battle is debatable. But don’t say you are going to chose it as the place to make your stand and then turn around and pre-emptively cave. Then you just look like a wuss. Not standing your ground on the debt limit is something they should have gotten together and agreed on long ago and then never brought up as a potential battle ground. Once it is out there it is out there, and you have to do what you say you are going to do. As it is the Republicans look like a bunch of whipped dogs and the President looks like he got the better of them.

  5. RedPhillips Post author

    Make the Dems and a few RINOs put the debt limit raise over the top, with the majority of Republicans voting no. That’s better PR than having the vast majority of the Republican caucus vote to raise the debt limit like a bunch of drunken sailors.

  6. aware

    O’Banion and Capone were bitter rivals but what difference did it make to those under the dominion of one or the other? Is one criminal gang preferable to another?

  7. Savrola

    Red just can’t decide what side he is on.

    Today he’s rooting for the Republicans to fight back (only the good ones mind you.)

    Tomorrow he’s a Constitution Party man bashing the established two-party political system.

    After that, he’s a conservative everyman, tired of getting screwed over.

    This is fairly typical behavior for people in the medical profession.
    It’s the only way they can survive.

  8. Matt Weber

    It isn’t debatable; the debt limit is the wrong place to have the battle. The people are quite clear on this, polls show that they are somewhat concerned about spending/debt, but they don’t want any of these grandstanding gestures. You can blame the media for this perception, and there is certainly truth to that, but there it is. That the Republicans backed down is only sensible once they became aware of what the reaction was going to be. What they are fighting now is the perception that they are a crazy party that just lurches from one manufactured crisis to the next trying to impose their minority view.

  9. RedPhillips Post author

    Sav, don’t play dense. My position is clear. I am a paleoconservative. I think most conservatives should be free agents. They should work in the GOP in primaries, but they should vote third party in the general if the GOP nominee is insufficiently conservative. Of course I think the current two party system doesn’t serve conservatives well, but on certain battles where the GOP is closer to the correct position, I will side with them against the even worse Dems. It’s really not that complicated.

  10. RedPhillips Post author

    Matt, I actually agree that these manufactured crises are silly. It is a way to attempt to force a bipartisan agreement and give cover to both parties for what they are too scared to do on their own.

    In advance, the GOP should not have made it a battle point. They should have forced Dems and a minority of squishy Republicans to vote for it, and the majority of Republicans should have voted against it. Then the Republicans would have the high ground on the issue, but without getting blamed for “shutting down the government” or whatever. Now with this deal the majority of Republicans voted to raise the debt limit. That was horribly played.

    You forget that I am not running for office. So I get to be a voice on the sidelines hollering for the Republicans to do right. Aren’t there already plenty of voices out there telling the GOP to compromise and be “reasonable?” Why do I want to join that chorus?

  11. Matt Weber

    Well the Republicans can’t do right if they aren’t there, and if they lose the House too we’ll really be in for it. More generally, forcing a big showdown via the debt ceiling is absolutely the wrong way to proceed. If there are cuts that need to be made, then they should be made at budget time. But if there is no political support for cuts, and there doesn’t appear to be any once we get down to specifics, then I don’t expect the Republicans or anyone else to make any. They are first and foremost a political party, so even though we aren’t concerned with winning elections, they are, and anything we expect them to do must have at the least a case for being politically advantageous.

  12. savrola

    In other words, you’re saying we should continue to be ineffectual, Red.

    Tread the same old worn path to defeat. Election Cycle after Election Cycle.

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