Posted under Alan Keyes & Obama
I have avoided commenting on this issue because it is more complicated than most are making it, and I didn’t have the time nor the inclination. But here is a very good discussion of the issue. My thoughts are in the comment section. I may collect my thoughts into a more coherent column at some point, but the comment thread is well worth reading.
I am not normally inclined to believe conspiracy theories, but what is being alleged here is not completely implausible. Aspects of it border on implausible.
But something definitely seems fishy? Obama could shut everyone up by just paying the 12 bucks and getting a copy. Why has he not done this? You hate to ask someone to prove a negative, but this whole thing could be put to rest so easily that it has to make you wonder why he hasn’t done so.
It is not even clear that he would be inelligible even if he was born in Kenya since “natural born” likely was not intended to mean born on American soil but rather not a naturalized citizen.
Do note that our old nemesis Alan Keyes is publicity seeking again.
Jon on 29 Nov 2008 at 11:27 am #
One of the problems today is iterpretation of the Constitution. If the founders meant naturalized citizens, that is what they would have said, not “natural born.”
Of course if we took everything literally, we would have no use for judges and lawyers or ministers. Just think of what the unemployment rate would be without them at work.
I don’t know, but from what I have read, Obama has never been naturalized after his mother became an Indonesian citizen, so even interpreting the constitution would be mute.
Interesting period for our country ahead.
RedPhillips on 29 Nov 2008 at 3:04 pm #
Jon, I’m not saying they meant naturalized citizen. I’m saying they likely meant not a naturalized citizen.
Good Constitutional interpretation is like good Biblical interpretation. It is not wooden literalism. It is attempting to discern the framers’ intent.
The situation was very different back then. The country was young. No one running back then would have been a natural born citizen, because they would have been English citizens until around 1776. The intent seemed to be to prevent recent immigrants who were naturalized from running.
If natural born means born on American soil then McCain was not qualified either.
The issue of Indonesia is different from the “natural born” issue.
David Allyn on 29 Nov 2008 at 5:53 pm #
The facts seem clear enough and BHO has done nothing to vindicate himself. However, we must be aware of the evil forces behind him and the fact that they just raised and spent $ 650 million elevating him to the highest office in the land. Are we so naive as to believe that the BHO folks could not come up with the resources to forge the needed documents ? Similarly, should the SCOTUS actually review the matter (which I seriously doubt) do people honestly believe that the required 2 or 3 “justices” could not be bribed to vote in favor of BHO ? It continues to amaze me that so many people continue to trust elected and appointed officials and fail to see the wickedness that has saturated our government at all levels.
I echo what Jon said above – it will be interesting to watch the actions and reactions in this country over the next decade.
fellist on 30 Nov 2008 at 2:54 am #
Red Phillps, as a keen reader I would hope you would use your platform to explain what is complicated. Why on earth would you avoid complicated issues?
Weaver on 30 Nov 2008 at 3:46 am #
Fellist,
some were concerned Obama was born to an American but renounced citizenship as a Kenyan or later became an Indonesian and there renounced citizenship and was only later naturalised, or was never naturalised (still isn’t an American).
If ever Obama renounced being an American, including at birth, then some people claim he cannot be president. The Supreme Court would have to hear of it though, and it would never rule against the President-elect. So, this is only useful in undermining Obama and making him look not only more foreign but less legitimate, which (I assume) could reduce his political power and stoke a reaction.
Weaver on 30 Nov 2008 at 3:51 am #
Fellist, the CofCC put up a very good comment on this:
Weaver on 30 Nov 2008 at 4:04 am #
Dr. Phillips makes a very valuable point: the Constitution should be interpreted with original intent.
And, something is fishy about so many records being made off limits; something is being hidden.
roho on 30 Nov 2008 at 4:56 pm #
I think that I read somewhere that Sukarto(Or whichever regime)required citizenship as a precurser to enter public school in Indonesia at that time?(Those records would confirm him as an Indonesian Citizen).
But, as we know, “Dubya” said the Constitution is just a G%$ D#@$ piece of paper!……..And congress has proven him right for the last (8) years.
Why should Congress even be relivant? They forfitted their right to declare war, as well as print money!…..What is it that they do, if the SCOTUS has to determine everything? In Fascism only a councel of 12 such as the SCOTUS would be able to vote on the President anyway…….(Are we not there allready?)
The Executive Branch and Judicial Branch have ran this country for some time, disimpowering the citizen to mostly vote for irrelavant “yes men”.
Daniel Maxwell on 30 Nov 2008 at 5:37 pm #
“But, as we know, “Dubya” said the Constitution is just a G%$ D#@$ piece of paper!……..And congress has proven him right for the last (8) years”
Last 8? The government has treated it that way for over 140 years!
roho on 01 Dec 2008 at 3:36 pm #
Daniel………………You are correct!
T. Chan on 02 Dec 2008 at 10:36 am #
Any updates?
Marc on 02 Dec 2008 at 1:57 pm #
If McCain had a set he could have probably forced Obama out of the race or at least won on this issue. Everyday of the campaign, at every debate he should have been saying just show us your birth certificate. Eventually people would have wondered why in the hell doesn’t he just show it and put two and two together.
roho on 02 Dec 2008 at 5:54 pm #
Is it Zimbabwe Rebels?…….Is it Old Photos from Mogidisha or South Africa?……..Is it Rhodesian mercinaries?
No!…..It’s photos of African/American citizens trampeling a Walmart employee to death!
http://www.nydailynews.com/money/galleries/walmart_stampede_captured_in_pictures/walmart_stampede_captured_in_pictures.html
Weaver on 03 Dec 2008 at 6:45 am #
T. Chan,
Obamaforgery.com is a site the CofCC recently linked to.
It has a video: Obama Vs. Constitution (60 Sec. TV Ad).
wbigben on 07 Dec 2008 at 7:01 pm #
I feel Obama may be a fine president.
However, if I have to produce my birth certificate and social security number to even get a drivers license how come he is exempt from producing it to become president? Is the law set so it takes less documentation to become president then to get my license?
T. Chan on 08 Dec 2008 at 8:30 pm #
Looks like SCOTUS will not be doing any reviews:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081208/ap_on_go_su_co/scotus_obama
mary h on 03 Jan 2009 at 2:51 am #
why don’t we as American citizens have the right to know about who is being the leader of our country. And why are these judges not even looking at the evidence that several people have put in fronnt of them. Can’t we even expect the supreme judges to uphold the law?
I am goinmg to write a letter to them and put the factthat they are not even interested if a person not eligible to be president will soon be sworn in.
Are they afraid that Obama will take them from the bench or what.
Iwish everyone concerned would write them a letter stating our concerns.