December
29th 2008
Posted under Uncategorized
Justin Raimondo on the politics of the Gaza massacre.
Glenn Greenwald writes about the depravity of Marty Peretz and dictatorial control of the Israeli lobby.
An article on Lew Rockwell.com talks about efforts to have the Vendee Massacre declared a genocide.
Also on LRC.com, Venetian as a seperate language.
Austin Bramwell at Takimag talks about Bush II’s pathetic history reclamation project.
roho on 30 Dec 2008 at 1:16 am #
Regarding Raimondo on the subject of the “Gaza Massacre”? How else would one describe it? Palestinians living in the largest consentration camp in the world, trying to revolt with 13th century Chinese Quality homemade rockets against the 4th largest military industrial complex in the world ?………. And the world should feel sorry for the Israelis that refuse to even allow humanitarian aid?
I NEVER liked “Jammy” Carter on anything, but he is right on target on this issue! (I’m not yet convinced that Hamas is actually the ones firing these worthless prehistoric missles/bottle rockets into Israel?) Israel needs these attacks to justify their expansion and new settlements. And, then they respond with with their 21st Century High Tech weapon systems against civilian populations.
This ain’t conservatism. Gaza is nothing more that a concentration camp with targets that havn’t learned how to comply to Zionist Expansion! The internet changed everything, and there is now sites(For how long?)that provide so much video and information, that it is now illogical to see the Israelis as victims! (And the U.S. Citizen is now recognizing this.)
Weaver on 30 Dec 2008 at 1:54 am #
I wouldn’t mind them fighting if they’d just leave America out of it.
What legitimate reason is there for the empire to be in the Middle East?
America imports Muslims while simultaneously enraging them…
RonL on 30 Dec 2008 at 6:59 am #
Roho,
I sometimes wonder whether I inhabit the same planet as you, or whether yours is a voice from an alternate reality.
“egarding Raimondo on the subject of the “Gaza Massacre”? How else would one describe it? ”
Surgical strikes, which have killed over 300 Hamas terrorists and under 50 civilians. You haven’t the slightest idea what a massacre is. Had Israel butchered 3000 civilians to kill the 300 fighters, that would be a massacre.
“Palestinians living in the largest consentration camp in the world, trying to revolt with 13th century Chinese Quality homemade rockets against the 4th largest military industrial complex in the world ?”
Until the residents of Gaza chose war over peace, no sane person could concievable view it as such. Israel left them infrastructure, farms, and relatively unmonitered trade. In return the fams were destroyed and turned into launchpads for rocket attacks on Israeli cities. Short of committing suicide, what would you have Israel do? It was trying to make peace.
However, how is Gaza any more of a concentration camp than Israel?
“(I’m not yet convinced that Hamas is actually the ones firing these worthless prehistoric missles/bottle rockets into Israel?) I”
You must really hate the Arabs, not to believe their open claims and videos. Do you consider them subhuman incapable of this, or do you so hate Jews and Israel in your Holocaust denying/celebrating mind that you must blame the Jews.
“Israel needs these attacks to justify their expansion and new settlements.”
“. Gaza is nothing more that a concentration camp with targets that havn’t learned how to comply to Zionist Expansion! ”
Expansion? As I said, what planet are you talking about?
3/4 of Palestine was set aside as an exclusive Arab state, in which no Jew can own property. (It is called Jordan)
Of the remaining 1/4 we have Israel and the disputed territories. Israel has given back 95% of Gaza and large sections of Judea and Samaria/the West Bank. Jews were forceable ethnically cleansed from Eretz Yisrael by a Jewish government for worthless promises by Arabs.
“This ain’t conservatism.”
And the conservative position if Aztlanistas were rocketing the US would be what exactly?
“The internet changed everything, and there is now sites(For how long?)that provide so much video and information, that it is now illogical to see the Israelis as victims! (And the U.S. Citizen is now recognizing this.)”
Indeed there are. Now we have evidence of Reuter’s photo fabrication. We have documentation that every report from the disputed territories is contorled by the Palestinian authority of Hamas as they require use of Arab stringers, photographers, and often journalists. Those not toeing the line are expelled, and often attacked.
RonL on 30 Dec 2008 at 7:51 am #
Yet again Dennis Raimondo sinks leftist tripe in his pathological hatred of Israel. One would think the fact that hundreds of rockets were fired on Israeli towns and cities during the Hudna/ceasfire and the fact that Hamas declared an end to the ceasefire last week would figure into the rants of the queer bigot. Likewise the fact that Israel freed over 200 Palestinian Prisoners last week in an attempt to keep the violence limited to a handful of attacks on Israel/day would count for something. But not for those who hate Israel’s existence.
What else do you expect of one who speaks of 300 dead, without noting that 250 are Hamas fighters? Or one who fails to note Israel has been going out of its way to warn, by leaflet of telephone call, civilians being used as human shields?
It is true that the Kadima junta running Israel are using this for political ends. But they did not declare an end to peace, Hamas did.
“I won’t bother answering the “talking points” of Israel’s powerful lobby in the U.S. – the Palestinians are terrorists, they deserved what they got, those missile barrages fired in recent weeks (in which not a single Israeli was killed) were ample provocation, etc. The whole world knows that none of these have anything to do with the latest Israeli military action.”
Of course he won’t because the facts are irrelevant to him. Similarly, Hamas’s declaration that the ceasefire was over is of no importance. The only thing that has values is the leftist paradigm that weakness equals virtue and darker people are better. The Sodomite Fannonite deserves no mention at a conservative site, save derision.
“The entire operation is, instead, part and parcel of a long-standing concerted campaign by the Israeli government to further marginalize and drive out the remnants of the Palestinian people who still cling tenaciously to what’s left of their land.”
Considering the fact that Israel ethnically cleansed Gaza of all Jews and then handed it and new infrastructure over to the Palestinian authority, I don’t know what Raimondo is thinking.
“:It is a policy of military and economic warfare, aimed at making life impossible for the Palestinian helots….As the new Sparta of the Middle East runs roughshod over the laws of morality and basic human decency, Israel’s amen corner in the U.S. is going into overdrive in an effort to prettify one of the ugliest incidents in a decade of unmitigated cruelty and brutality”
Such big words from a man whose knowledge of ancient Greece is pining for the Sacred Band of Thebes and Spartan barrack life and the occasional flourish of epistolary onanism.
Does Raimondo realize that Israel is a parliamentary democracy, 1/5th of whose citizens are Arab beneficiaries of affirmative action? I doubt he knows anything outside of CAIR and communist press releases on the subject.
“All the familiar “progressive” voices – with certain sterling exceptions – are suddenly stilled: we hear nothing from our Democratic politicians, those fabled agents of “change,” except expressions of support for Israel’s war crimes.”
Such a conservative, Raimondo is. He calls for leftist activism, while using imaginary “war crimes” as reason to empower the internationalist left.
“House Speaker Nancy Pelosi declares that Israel has “the right to defend itself,” without deigning to inform us as to whether the Palestinians have the same right.”
And if they were shooting the Hamas Jihadis using them as cattle/human shields the Palestinians would be acting in self defense.
“For all those hysterical ultra-Zionists in both Israel and the U.S. who thought Obama’s election would be disastrous to the Zionist project, and their own efforts to expand it beyond its historic borders, let this be an object lesson in the danger of jumping to unwarranted conclusions.”
Historic what? Israel controlled the West Bank and Gaza for 30 years, or 11 more than the 1949 ceasefire borders were in effect. Israel’s historic borders would include the territories it ceded for the “piece process”.
“If they’d listened before they jumped – or paid attention to what they read on Antiwar.com – they would have realized how utterly misplaced their paranoia would turn out to be.”
Considering Dennis’s basic lack of recent history, why trust anything he publishes including his false name?
“Obama has been in the Israel Lobby’s back pocket from the beginning, as his speech to AIPAC – a masterstroke of groveling – made all too clear.”
So 30 years of radical anti-Israel affiliations, as well as his leftist internationalist picks for office are to be ignored, but political pandering is gospel. What is Dennis mainlining?
“Like all U.S. presidents since Bush the Elder, this one is committed to maintaining and elaborating on our Israel-centric Middle East policy, of which the Iraq war was only the most dramatic chapter.”
You mean the same George HW Bush who toppled an Israeli government, after forcing it to ascede to Syrian control of Lebanon for his own oil war, who then foisted the Madrid “piece process” on Israel?
“Obama may have opposed that particular war, but he will do nothing to reverse its consequences, the most dramatic of which appears to be the unleashing of the Israeli military machine on the region. First it was Lebanon, followed by the buzzing of Syrian airspace and the bombing of an alleged “nuclear facility” that turned out to be an ordinary weapons dump. Now we have the end of “disengagement” in Gaza and the opening up of a new front in Israel’s relentless war of expansion.”
Other than at the center of Raimondo’s paranoia and lies since 9-11, where has Israel been expanding?
“It is a war that has been financed by U.S. tax dollars and fought with American weapons, with the active collaboration and support of our government.”
Those damn Israelis, responding to attacks by the Gaza offspring of the Muslim Brotherhood, while the US is at war with Al Qaeda, one of whose constituent groups, Islamic Jihad is a sibling of Hamas.
“We have paid for the radical expansion of the Israeli “settlements” by armed bands of ultra-nationalist fanatics, Israel’s version of the Taliban.”
What expansion is he blathering about? Besides, where are the repression of women exporting of terror in Gush Etzion? Raimondo should go there and then to Hamastan. Or not, he would be stoned to death as a homosexual, unless they made an unprincipled exception for an ally, as they do with communists.
“Indeed, Israeli opinion is moving rapidly in the radicals’ direction, and the victory of Benjamin Netanyahu and the far-right Likud Party in the upcoming election is virtually assured – with even more extreme elements waiting in the wings for their moment.”
Ah, that crazy Likud party, which calls for economic liberty, while also demanding security. (Sounds like the GOP to me) In fact until last week, Netanyahu was spending almost as much time attacking true Israeli nationalists, as he was blathering about the need for Kadima to be his junior partner.
“As the leaders of a settler colony implanted in the midst of Arab lands, the founders of the Israeli state were faced with a conundrum from the very start. No matter how enlightened and progressive the early settlers considered themselves, they could not escape their status as unwanted interlopers, the advance guard of what was essentially a foreign invasion. Living in their utopian kibbutzes and thinking they were constructing an egalitarian paradise, what they were really building was a rigidly hierarchical society, a caste system with the settlers and their descendants at the top, arranged in tiers according to their origins in the “diaspora,” with the Palestinians at the very bottom – a displaced underclass forcibly segregated and routinely subjected to Israeli state violence.”
At least Dennis is somewhat honest in his pathological hatred of Israel. Hence all attacks on it are just and any defense illegitimate. However the sodomite is a hypocrite, given that he lives in his own settler colony in North America. I believe in the right of conquest. Dennis just admits his anticonservative hatred of America too with his Fannonite language.
“Like a caged lion, grievously wounded, which nevertheless manages to roar and occasionally strike out – however ineffectually – at its tormentors, the Palestinian people are unbowed.”
And when will Dennis be justifying AIM and Aztlanista violence against America in his orgy of anti-Western cultural Marxism?
“”The Israelis – and the U.S. – rail against Hamas as a gang of terrorists, yet most of the governments of the region started out as “terrorist” gangs. Two were called the Irgun and the Haganah, the revolutionary movements that carried out attacks on civilians, including the British as well as the Arabs, in their battle to establish the state of Israel. Hamas will do no more, and no less, in their bid to establish a Palestinian state.””
Other than Jordan, that is. And Gaza could have been virtually independent had Hamas not tried to use its inhabitants as captive human shields in its attacks on Israeli civilians. Speaking of revolutionary gangs, how long will it be until Raimondo denounces the Sons of Liberty as well as American moving past the Proclamation line of 1763?
“If nothing else, this fresh paroxysm of Israeli aggression ought to debunk, once and for all, the neocon talking point that democracies never go to war with each other.”
So is Raimondos nihilistic lust for Israeli blood motivated by nothing more than pathologically unbalanced rage at neoconservatives?
“Yet here we have a country that styles itself an island of Western-style liberalism in a sea of Oriental despotism going to war with the only other democratically elected government in the immediate vicinity.”
One vote, one time isn’t democracy. I don’t see Israel attacking Turkey, so Raimondo is just proving his utter ignorance. (That was redundant, Raimondo does that whenever he puts 10 words together on the middle east.)
“Whatever the military outcome of the present conflict – in all likelihood a stalemate – this is a big political victory for Hamas, which ordinary Palestinians see actively defending them against the rampaging Israelis. The moderates on the West Bank are undercut, once again, and that has always been the Israeli strategy.”
You mean like Abbas who demanded Israel act to destroy Hamas before PA elections?
“Their first target was the decidedly secular Palestine Liberation Organization, which they did everything to destroy and undercut – even to the point of providing legal status and covert funding to Hamas. These followers of radical Islamist preachers began as a religious association, formally registered with the Israeli authorities. Hamas was encouraged as a potentially more compliant competitor with the PLO. Another case of blowback, with a vengeance.”
You mean like the insipid liberalism that forces Raimondo to ignore the goals of Islamic Jihadis to conquer not just Israel, but Spain as as noted in Hamas’s charter?
“Having given birth to the monster of Hamas, the mutant offspring of occupation and dispossession, the Israelis will be forgiven if they refuse to acknowledge the family resemblance.”
Of course, the idiot has never heard of the Islamic Brotherhood or read Sayed Qutb.
“Yet it is unmistakable. Both Israel and Hamas-stan are the spawn of religious and ethnic exclusivism and messianism, their leaders fanatics armed with state power. There are differences, of course, a major one being that one side is funded to the tune of $3 billion a year and supported unconditionally by Washington, while the Palestinians – shot at by their fellow Arabs as they try to cross the border into Egypt – stand pretty much alone.
This latest bloody chapter in the tragic history of the region is being written because all the main protagonists benefit: the Israelis, Hamas, and radicals of all stripes, especially those groups aligned with al-Qaeda. As in the case of the Iraq war, bin Laden’s narrative of an Israeli-Crusader invasion intent on stamping out Islam is seemingly verified as blood flows freely in the streets of Gaza.”
Because we all know that Israel wants to conquer the world. I don’t know if this is projections, leftist moral equivalence, or the scribbling of one missing their dose of thorazine.
“The Israeli rampage is not in our interests, and the longer it continues the more it threatens the already tenuous position of U.S. troops in Iraq, endangering them by inflaming the local populace, which is vehemently pro-Palestinian. The Israeli blitz is sending shockwaves through the region that could upset several apple-carts of U.S. construction, including the regime in Egypt, the pro-U.S. Jordanian monarchy, and especially our rambunctious Iraqi protectorate, where anti-U.S. sentiment is not so quietly building.”
So suddenly Dennis wants the neocon exsxperiment in Iraq to succeed. Has he no semblance of honor or intellectual honesty?
“If American interests in the region are to be served, then this unhealthy relationship has to change. Yet it won’t change until and unless the political power of the Israel Lobby is broken on the home front. If it takes the prospect of World War III to bring us to that point, it will be far too high a price to pay – yet one that seems increasingly unavoidable.”
The Soviets are attacking West Berlin? Oh, wait he means World War IV, which seems to have started back in 618, when the Muslims began to pine for world domination. Dennis just is unable to pay attention to facts not from the perspective of the communist “Nation” magazine.
Weaver on 30 Dec 2008 at 1:31 pm #
Raimondo and these other left wing types (e.g. counterpunch) seem to want an end of all nations.
That’s certainly cause for wariness of what he says.
I’d be interested in hearing one of these right wing Israel-haters defend their case, ah probably in private, as to just what would happen were Israel removed (also how this would be brought about, what this would mean, etc.).
The argument right now seems to be that liberal Jews exploit these other countries and then have Israel to flee to, and there are a few specific examples of this but I doubt its significance.
But are liberal Jews expected to suddenly behave if Israel ceases to exist? And if Israel ceases to exist would Middle East wars cease or would there be renewed attempts at reestablishing the state?
Israel and the Likud Party is at the center of nearly every conflict there, we all pretty much know or suspect this, but how can this info be useful and acted upon?
There’s a lot of anti-Israel talk in areas, but I never or rarely here a case made. It’s just assumed that folks will realise it on their own I suppose…
No foreign affairs topic should be taboo, surely, so these are the questions I’d like asked. How does each scenario affect the US and the West?
Though I’m certainly no expert, asking such questions I do not at all come to the conclusion that Israel’s existence must cease. Rather, I come to the conclusion that truly I don’t know, but that I’m inclined to be sympathetic to any nation-state, especially those tradition oriented, in this age of globalism v. nationalism. I’m also strongly inclined towards wanting the US to remain uninvolved, but… my desire for inaction won’t likely become a reality any time soon.
So, realpolitik, if the US is involved what are the options on the table – where is the wiggle room? Some seem to answer that the best option is to support these leftwing anti-Israel groups as a best possible solution, but that goes back into the previous question of: what would the result be of removing the state or otherwise “solving” (the definition of solving would need to be explained) the problem of Israel?
Hopefully this isn’t too sensitive of a topic, but we hear this same-old debate constantly all over the web among free-speech type conservative websites.
Donald Raymond Lake on 01 Jan 2009 at 7:36 pm #
For those whom think that warning against ‘Jewish Fascists’ is an oxymoron let me give you a middle of the road modern cautionary tale, up close and personal. After years in another alternative party, I was recruited, HEAVILY recruited, into the Deform Party of California.
The hook was abused veterans issues. The former state chair, current GOP Jeff Rainforth, fulfilled his end of the bargain with a beautiful ‘CALVETS Investigation Committee’ and five pages on the state web site and lots of ‘ink’ on the state reflector.
As you may remember, Independent Henry Ross Perot got almost 20% of the popular vote in P1992. The ‘joke’ ticket of Ted Weill and John McNulty polled less than 500 [NATION WIDE, TOTAL] in P2008! What the……
The actions of many in the Deform Movement can most broadly be encapsulated as ‘non logical’! Oh come on, Deform partisan politics is so weird that there must be some thing else going on. Sure enough!
Struggling with the National Blog and the house organ print monthly were a loose set of folks always zigging when the others were zagging! Then an article submission concerning the low profile story of the Israeli IDF lethal attack on the non combatants of the USS Liberty surfaced.
Shadowy John Blare, all over the place Valli [sic] Sharpe Geisler , Citizens For A Better Veterans Home founder John Dennis Coffey, and Christian Zionist John Bambey, Californians all, fought the broad casting of this documented and verified ‘McKinney style’ slaughter with a vengeance.
Both the web log and the news letter were killed by this Israel First cabal. It was found out later, and corroborated that these so called good solid centrists were emailing, phoning and coordinating the attack on the truth tellers. [All these actions were originally denied!]
I have no problem with John Blare and John Dennis Coffey being mid life converts to Judaism. I have no problem, out side of politics, with John Bambey being a Protestant, Bible Thumper! Valli, well she is Valli [and along with Blare, still owes me money!] I have lots of problems with ‘reform’ types whom conduct ‘politics as usual’!
The Israel First Lobby, [so called] patriotic AMERICANS whom act as if their compass is strangely magnetized when it comes to stars with six points? It is real, it is there, and real Americans usually find out about it, like the Pro Stalin American Communist Party, after the fact.
Promote Israeli issues and agenda? Sure, go for it! At the expense of the wounded [largely self inflicted] and staggering USA? Never!
donlake@ymail.com
619.420.0209