Posted under Conservatism & Political Philosophy
Wow. This is a knock down drag out. These boys need to take it to the Octagon.
Here is McCain at the American Spectator blog. I comment in the thread.
I do not think it is out of line for authentic conservatives of whatever age to point out that the conservative movement hasn’t actually conserved anything. But I agree with McCain that a certain amount of deference is due to the “Old Turks” even if we disagree with their tactics and are unimpressed with their record of success. And there are nice and gentle ways to say things and harsh ways to say things and the former, in this setting, is generally the wiser.
I also think that a lot of the paleo/alt right attacks on the Conservative Movement that have been popping up in the wake of CPAC and the Limbaugh speech are ill advised. I am working on an article about this.
Rollo on 07 Mar 2009 at 2:04 pm #
I got McLaren by triangle choke in the 1st.
I don’t see what any of us owe to the older “conservatives” who have shown themselves to be anything but conservative and who have destroyed, consciously perhaps, the whole movement. They are the enemy.
RedPhillips on 07 Mar 2009 at 2:33 pm #
But Rollo, the “enemy” language is unhelpful. However bad they may be, they are closer to us than liberals or disinterested moderates. Who is our audience if not people who think they are conservative but really aren’t? They need to be wooed. Not called names.
roho on 08 Mar 2009 at 3:01 am #
Red………..Even Conservatives get old, tired, placated, and lazy.(Even WFB)……..And nothing nurtures that more than the GOP.
Ron Paul and Chuck Baldwin are the real voice of conservatism now, and we old geizers need to shove our grandchildren in their direction!
“Old people don’t fight revolutions, they evaluate them”.
Dylan Hales on 08 Mar 2009 at 3:19 am #
Chuck Baldwin is the public face of a party filled with people that according to Red’s own accounts are closer to the Old Guard than The New Turks. If anything the Constitution Party is proof that these people CAN be converted.
On the other hand this “I’m older than you and been around the block, blah, blah” schtick is boring and unhelpful.
Weaver on 08 Mar 2009 at 3:57 am #
Dylan Hales,
This revolutionary insanity wouldn’t have been possible had hippies listened to their parents rather than their professors, rock bands, and TV.
Wisdom often does come with age.
Dr Bob on 10 Mar 2009 at 12:47 am #
When we step back and take a look at this overall picture it becomes obvious that we have two basic groups. One wants bigger government for any one (or more than one) of a number of reasons. The other wants smaller government for any one (or more than one, usually) of a number of reasons.
So what do we do? Do we continue to bash ourselves against each other, seeing government continue to grow and those in the smaller government camp becoming more and more frustrated and feeling more and more betrayed every day?
I will make a recommendation that was once a viable and accepted option in this great land. Perhaps it is time that this marriage of convience, or inertia is probably more accurate, to end and an amiable divorce to take place.
It is time for the big government crowd to go one way and for the small government crowd to go another. If you believe as Zero-bama does, that government is the answer to all our ills, then you should be allowed to live in a country that has someone like him at its head.
If you believe as Ronald Reagan did, that government is the problem and as Thomas Jefferson did when he said that that government which govern least governs best, then you should be allowed to live in a country that is run according to those philosophies.
This can be an amieable divorce, and should be. Perhaps it is time for us to reconsider the idea of succession. Perhaps it is time for us to be able to watch these two diametrically opposed ideas operate side by side. And there doesn’t have to be a war to make that happen.
If countries like Latvia, Lithuiania, Bulgaria, Estonia, Albania, and many others can peacefully extract themselves from the clutches of communism, why can we not allow those of us in these United States who no longer wanted to be yoked, or united, with the other crowd, just be allowed to go their own way?
Certainly if enough of us begin to speak out for this option eventually we can create a ground swell of support for it. And that is certainly a step in the right direction.
Then all those who want bigger government can have what they want and all those who want smaller government can have what they want.
What a novel and interesting idea, don’t you think?
(Yes, I know. That was what the Second American Revolution was all about. And even though one part of the country just wanted to be left alone, we do have two things going for us this time. We do not have the issue of slavery clouding the issue and, after all, as my liberal friends keep telling me, we live in a more enlightened time in history.)
As a final comment, I put forth this proposal just to get the ball rolling. Yes, I understand the propensity for the large government crowd to have heart palpitations at the very thought of people being allowed to live their own lives. They certainly feel as if they should be dictating what we see, hear, think and do. And they love to start wars to effect that end. But no idea that has ever succeeded has had a totally smooth road. And it is surely an idea whose time has come, again.