Posted under Sovereignty and Secession
This reminds me of what mathematician James Roy Newman warned about the Law of Large Numbers: “The fact is, it is a nest of subtleties and traps; the harder one thinks about it, the more one grows uneasy.” Yes, it would be fine and fitting that Bush & Co. should be prosecuted for the whole “War on Terror” nightmare, from launching a war of aggression against Iraq based on lies, to undermining the Bill of Rights, and to their authorization of torture. And how delicious it would be to see John Yoo, Alberto Gonzales, and Doug Feith doing the perp walk and sweating it out in court. But this just isn’t worth it:
A high-level Spanish court has taken the first steps toward opening a criminal investigation against six former Bush administration officials, including former Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales, on whether they violated international law by providing a legalistic framework to justify the use of torture of American prisoners at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, an official close to the case said.
I feel the same about this as I do the Federal Marriage Amendment, or various Federal measures to protect gun rights: it’s the wrong way to go about it. In fact, the notion of relying on “international law” to prosecute American officials has the same bad smell as the proposal to use the Federal government to advance any item on the “conservative” agenda, because the means will ultimately undermine the end. Just as increasing DC’s power over the States will only diminish liberty in the long run, relying on international bodies to do the jobs Americans won’t do will further erode the entire idea of national sovereignty, which is already weakened to the point of tottering.
That’s a trap we should have the wits to avoid.
Kirt Higdon on 29 Mar 2009 at 12:57 am #
It is the wrong way to go about it, but sooner or later you will see American officials tried by foreigners. The US pioneered this with the Nuremburg trials and has continued it right down to the present. Sometimes the court is national, sometimes international, but the person on trial is always an enemy of the US or an abandoned ally or just someone the US rulers have decided to punish. On the other hand, not only do US high ranking officials have complete impunity, but in many satelite countries this impunity extends right down to the lowest ranking US soldier, thanks to SOFAs.
What goes around comes around and the only condition necessary for US rulers to be tried as war criminals will be for them to lose a war and for the US to get knocked off its world hegemon perch. Then you may well see Bush or Obama or their co-conspirators doing the perp walk and they will richly deserve it.
Americaneocon on 29 Mar 2009 at 1:13 am #
Yep, what goes around comes around, and the paleos are on the outs when it comes to Obama’s Afghan policy:
http://americanpowerblog.blogspot.com/2009/03/obamas-neoconservative-pragmatism.html
Weaver on 29 Mar 2009 at 10:02 am #
Americaneocon,
How difficult is it to understand: the US should have responded with a retaliation, and then left Afghanistan alone?
You can’t kill or reconstruct everyone.
Kirt Higdon on 29 Mar 2009 at 10:40 am #
Obama’s Afghan policy consists of pouring more and more US forces into that graveyard of empires and extending the war to heavily populated and nuclear armed Pakistan. Glad to hear that at least a few Americans are “on the outs” with that. Meanwhile, having unsuccessfully outsourced America’s first African war (Somalia) to Ethiopia, the regime is outsourcing the second (Sudan) to Israel. I bet paleos are “on the outs” with Obama’s African policy too; someone has to be a voice for sanity.
Prior to 9/11, the default settings of the American public were peace and prosperity. The Bush regime used 9/11 and the much over-hyped threat of terrorism to create a climate of fear which would re-calibrate one of those default settings from peace to perpetual warfare. Far from changing anything, the Obama regime is building on Bush’s wars, expanding them, and starting new ones.
roho on 29 Mar 2009 at 2:14 pm #
HB2…….. I share your concern. Supreme Scalia said that International Law does pose a threat to our Constitutional Laws System.(Or what’s left of it?)
The Sea Treaty, Noahide Laws, etc…… I was however disapointed that he never mentioned that we came out from under the constitution long ago, and adapted a hybred system of equety and admiralty law(contracts)after the federal reserve aquired power.
It’s called the UCC or Uniform Commercial Code and takes up an entire wall of bookcases.
Regardless, If America is ever defeated in a war, the occupation will make all other occupations look like a girl scouts party.
HarrisonBergeron2 on 29 Mar 2009 at 2:59 pm #
Kirt Higdon,
You nailed it. And I do believe Nuremburg established the precedent that “obeying orders” is not a valid defense.
“What goes around comes around” is something DC can’t quite grasp. The Masters of the Universe think they get to hurl their lightning bolts at those who fail to live up to their high standards (which don’t apply to them!) without retribution.
9/11 should’ve taught them a lesson, but instead, they hurled even more bolts of lightning. As the man once asked, when will they ever learn?
HarrisonBergeron2 on 29 Mar 2009 at 3:05 pm #
roho,
Oh, yeah. The next round of blowback will certainly be worse. And who knows how many Fifth Columns the Open Borders Neocons have allowed to set up shop here at home?
The second hit will not only be used to justify pumping up the war party, but the “enemy within” argument will pave the way for even more citizen surveillance and government control. Talk about a win-win for Big Government!
HarrisonBergeron2 on 29 Mar 2009 at 3:10 pm #
Americaneocon:
Wow. Looks like you and I agree that Obama is just another hired hand of the Empire:
“So let’s see — the Obama Regime expands DC’s foreign military adventures, defends John Yoo’s doctrine of the imperial presidency, and is working on another amnesty scheme for illegal aliens.
Oh, and now we can add the abuse of executive signing statements to Obama’s resume. Looks like the age of color-blindness has indeed arrived, because it’s impossible to distinguish George W. Bush from Barack Hussein Obama.”
roho on 31 Mar 2009 at 12:24 am #
HB2……… I know this is a weird question, but those that were entrenched in “Leviathan” and thought that they would simply exit and be lost in the records of history, are where?
I speak of those in my region only because it’s all that I can do to keep up with my Southeast Criminals without me trying to track the gangsters of the Northeast, etc.
1. For example, where is GOP neocon “Senator Bill Frist”, who bailed out when he saw that the shit was about to hit the fan!……Is he hiding in Tenessee waiting for a “Fred Thompson” style bullshit resurection?
2. And, then there is the powerful “Trent Lott” who rallied around the Neocon flag, untill his hometown investments were slammed by Hurricane Katrina!
And yes, I agree that “Obama” is nothing more than another “Globalist Puppet”!……..America has become as corrupt as Boxing, or as entertaining as Professional Wrestling?
Can you believe that a former U.S. President’s wife is Secretary Of State for the United States Of America?……..Damn! What a joke!..How much weirder can it get?……But, these guy’s knew in advance what was going to happen, and bailed out.
I wouldn’t want to be a recognizable face if this economy goes belly up?……………The “French Revolution” might look like a garden party before this thing is over?
These guys knew what was comming?……They were on the inside!…And they recognized that it was a perfect time to exit politics with the money!(Much like a Wall Street Banker!)…..Spending a lifetime sucking up to AIPAC and the Lobby, they knew that “It’s about to get ugly!”……….So, which lobbying firm did these little “Former Elected Officials” dive into?
I know that these little chicken-shits didn’t go home write their memoirs?
Mike on 31 Mar 2009 at 12:47 am #
Or maybe Bush should’ve pussy-footed around those terrorists, not touch a hair on their heads….and mean while, your sorry collective arses will get blown up by another terrorist attack because we were too wussy to extract information to protect ourselves.
When the Geneva Convention was signed, there were no terrorists…no one were hijacking commercial planes and crashing into civilain buildings to terrorize and kill as many innocent people as possible. Years ago wars were fought on the front, not crazy “martyrs” blowing themselves up in markets and schools in hopes of being rewarded with 70 virgins in the afterlife. Hell’s too good for them.
Wake up people and get your heads out of your behinds. This isn’t your grandpa’s war anymore…and these terrorist are NOT treated harshly enough in my opinion!! The same people whose “human rights” you want to protect are the same ones who’d just relish the thought of cutting your infidel head off first chance they get. Get a reality check, folks!!
Editor’s Note: I think your use of “pussy-footed” got this comment temporarily assigned to the spam folder.
Weaver on 31 Mar 2009 at 11:32 am #
Roho,
I hear Soros has does well off the crash.
HarrisonBergeron2 on 31 Mar 2009 at 12:28 pm #
roho,
Yes, “those people” — as Robert E. Lee referred to our enemies — are indeed greedy, capricious, irrational, etc. It’s our burden and privilege to have to confront and expose them for what they are, while we maintain our sense of humor. Our task is made easier by the wealth of comic material they donate.
Kirt Higdon on 01 Apr 2009 at 4:00 am #
Paleos, libertarians – you must be doing something right to provoke such an hysterical, carpet-chewing reaction from the sociopathic militarists and advocates of torture.
HarrisonBergeron2 on 01 Apr 2009 at 9:38 pm #
Kirt Higdon,
Yeah, we like to think so.
HarrisonBergeron2 on 01 Apr 2009 at 9:40 pm #
Mike,
The only Muslims that concern me are the ones your Neocon friends are welcoming to come colonize our nation by the thousands. And with a 5th column of felow religionists here, is it really a good idea to enrage even more of them in their homelands through endless military intervention?
Weaver on 01 Apr 2009 at 10:40 pm #
HarrisonBergeron2,
I dunno. The neocons are set on creating radical, America-hating Muslims in both Pakistan and Afghanistan. And Pakistan has the bomb.
If America doesn’t get competent leaders soon, it might be gone under a mushroom cloud. America needs to pull out fully before the morons screw things up worse.
The real question: is this blundering due to incompetence or is it all part of the plan? Are they intentionally trying to destroy America? That’s the question.
HarrisonBergeron2 on 03 Apr 2009 at 1:28 am #
Weaver,
Hard to say when you’re dealing with Neocons. Look at Bill Kristol, who’s never been right about ANYTHING, and he keeps getting all these great gigs. Is there justice in the world?
Neocons need enemies to frighten taxpayers, and they keep finding them. Whether they boost the warfare/welfare state through sheer stupidity or shrewdness, they’re getting what they want. Both work for them.
Weaver on 03 Apr 2009 at 6:01 am #
Someone quoted this elsewhere recently on the same topic:
–Goering at the Nuremberg Trials