Posted under Politics & Sovereignty and Secession
Manners-impaired Northeastern Americans and brainwashed, self-hating Southerners poke fun at the Sons of Confederate Veterans for honoring a nation that no longer exists. But if you’re celebrating the Fourth of July, you’re doing the same thing, and don’t even realize it. The land of the free, says James Ostrowski, no longer exists:
You can say the pledge of allegiance and sing the national anthem all you want but please don’t pretend you are honoring the land of Washington and Jefferson. It has been many decades since America was governed by Jeffersonian principles of limited government or Washington’s foreign policy of minding our own damn business. Having a global military empire is not what I would call minding our own business.
The sad thing is that Americans have no grasp of what they’ve lost. Worse, they’ve swallowed their handlers’ fairy tales that eternal war and big government are the natural legacy of 1776. Bill Bennett isn’t the only one peddling these lies. Here’s another example:
America’s reflex — our natural position as a country — is to stand with a people against their government when that government is infringing upon their natural rights. But our president chose the course of deference to an authoritarian government as it repressed its own people…
Tell that to the 200,000 Christians of East Timor slaughtered by Suharto in 1975-6 with American weapons and support. Or to the Iranians whose republic was overthrown by the CIA in 1953.
And yes, while there’s praise for the “Tea Party” protests against “Big Government,” the same blog defends warrantless wiretapping and the torture and indefinite detention of terror suspects. Hello?
As Ostrowski pointed out, the Founders wouldn’t recognize the DC Empire as their legacy. We’ve clearly lost our way. But there’s a way back home — and that’s to salvage what’s left.
Weaver on 04 Jul 2009 at 6:33 pm #
When cutting away the cancerous part, we should be sure not to indulge in petty rivalry with other parts of America that are in a similar situation. I don’t need to tell you that, but it seems worth highlighting whenever secession is mentioned.
Those outside the South too often don’t understand this I think – a lot of them are just plain vanilla “American” and it’s rather a shock to learn that everyone isn’t that way. Francis was concerned secession would create senseless divisions, but I don’t think that’s inherently a part of secession at all.
Weaver on 04 Jul 2009 at 6:36 pm #
I’m uncertain of the ideal size of a state within a modern economy, but I do see the South as unique and secession as the only remedy to the American empire.
HarrisonBergeron2 on 04 Jul 2009 at 7:35 pm #
Weaver,
Agreed. And as to the ideal size of a viable political entity, let’s not forget Singapore and Switzerland — both prosperous, human-scaled, and peaceful.
Filmer on 04 Jul 2009 at 10:38 pm #
I wonder if Dr. Douglas, polisci PhD, understands that “natural rights” is liberal language?
But I wouldn’t dis the TEA Parties. You have to start somewhere and the TEA parties, are a step in the right direction.
Andrew T. on 05 Jul 2009 at 4:30 am #
I pledge allegiance, to the flag, of the United States of cookouts, fireworks displays, and flagrant ignorance of anything pertaining to this country’s origins.
Harold Crews on 05 Jul 2009 at 1:29 pm #
The Fourth of July is not a day to celebrate. It is a day to mourn what was lost and to offer penance for how far America has fallen. It is only invincible ignorance that prevents celebration of the day from being mockery.
Lord Peter on 05 Jul 2009 at 2:19 pm #
Alexander Hamilton would recognize the DC Empire as the one he always dreamed about! As would many Federalists that ended the colonial rebellion by bloodlessly setting aside the Articles of Confederation and trading George III for George I.
Americaneocon on 05 Jul 2009 at 5:30 pm #
My response is here, “Noxious Anti-Americanism and New Secessionist Theories”.
Attack comments at my blog will be deleted.
Harold Crews on 05 Jul 2009 at 5:55 pm #
These neocons lack the simple human decency not to invade or bomb other countries. Expecting restraint in not being a troll is far too much to hope for. Their imperialism knows no bounds. All must be brought to worship at the altar of America (or else). There can be no peace with that sort of scum.
HarrisonBergeron2 on 05 Jul 2009 at 6:04 pm #
Harold Crews,
The Fourth of July is as meaningful to me as Drinko de Mayo.
HarrisonBergeron2 on 05 Jul 2009 at 6:06 pm #
Andrew T,
Yep. That’s what it’s been reduced to. That, and celebration of floodtide immigration and emperor worship.
HarrisonBergeron2 on 05 Jul 2009 at 6:08 pm #
Lord Peter,
Good point. But though Hamilton might rejoice at the monster his ideas helped launch, even he would admit what we have today is different from the small-government Republic of Republics birthed in 1776.
HarrisonBergeron2 on 05 Jul 2009 at 6:15 pm #
Americaneocon,
Just the level of class we’ve come to expect from you.
You make all the usual charges of racism at us without a trace of proof to back it up. Sounds like you’ve been hanging tight with your pals at the ultra-lefty Southern Poverty Law Center. Explain again why you call yourself a conservative?
And what is more anti-American than supporting amnesty for illegals, the suspension of our traditional liberties, and wrecking our economy by supporting a senseless, illegal war?
Finally, you better believe we scrutinize the real Lincoln. He was a war criminal who subverted the Founders’ dream.
Harold Crews on 05 Jul 2009 at 6:27 pm #
HB2, Americaneocon is the sort who will heep every sort of abuse and calumny on you and then turn around accuse you of being malicious. His self-righteous hypocrisy is astonding.
HarrisonBergeron2 on 05 Jul 2009 at 6:40 pm #
BTW, here’s the comment I made on the “American Power” blog that DD deleted:
“In fact, Lincoln shamelessly misused the Declaration to suit his political goals.
The Declaration is NOT a statement of radical egalitarianism, nor did it create a new nation, as he asserted in his Gettysburg Address.
Instead, the Declaration proclaimed that all peoples have the right to self-determination — that is, the right of secession. Further, it proclaimed the 13 former British colonies were 13 free and independent states, which was further validated by the Treaty of Paris and the Articles of Confederation.
And thanks to Lincoln, we no longer have government by the consent of the governed, but a kleptocracy enforced by force and fraud.”
When he zapped that comment, I sent him the following email, which begins with a quote from his site:
” ‘I welcome comments and debate, and I’ll defend my positions vigorously.’
What a crock. You’re the biggest coward in the blogosphere. That delete key is the only thing you got going for you, and you know it.”
It’s bad enough to see government supremacists and Lincoln-idolators spreading lies and ruining our country with endless wars, but naked hypocrisy really riles me.
D B Allyn on 05 Jul 2009 at 6:59 pm #
For me, this was the most disappointing July 4th in many years. I attended a “celebration” and fireworks display held at a amphitheatre in Big Spring Tx., with music provided by a local sympthony orchestra. Just before it was dark enough to begin the fireworks, several small “welcomes” were given by the city mayor, the state and US representative and the local chamber of commerce rep. It was all very superfluous and all kinds of talk about “democracy”. But this all paled in significance when we were asked to stand for the playing of the Mexican national anthem. A rumble went throughout the audience and at first about 70% or so of the people did indeed stand up. When I and some others shouted to others to sit down and that this was a disgrace, I was glared at by several Mexicans in the crowd. As the anthem played, quite a number of the white people eventually sat down, and at the end, I would estimate that perhaps 40 % of the crowd remained standing, practically all of whom were Mexicans. After a few more marches, the correct national anthem was played, but the damage had already been done. Apparently the reason for this deplorable act was in consideration of the 50% of the city’s population who are Mexican.
HarrisonBergeron2 on 05 Jul 2009 at 7:21 pm #
DB Allyn,
Holy cow! Got any pictures? Was the press there?
Things are getting worse every day …
Americaneocon on 05 Jul 2009 at 7:39 pm #
“You make all the usual charges of racism at us without a trace of proof to back it up.”
Actually, I don’t “charge” anything. The post and the links all show a fascination with race that’s not necessary for the discussion, especially Larison and Navarrette. Be my guest to unpack it. I don’t know if YOU are a bigot, and I don’t allege so at my post, Old Rebel. Clearly Buchanan and Larison make inflammatory statements, and are clearly “haters” IMHO.
You called me out, big boy. If you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen. Coward? Takes one to know one, I guess.
HarrisonBergeron2 on 05 Jul 2009 at 7:54 pm #
Americaneocon,
So when you post the following about us on your blog …
“hate-based secessionism ”
“the same people who are arguing for secession today are associated with some of the vile anti-Semitics”
“It’s hard not to be wary of these paleocon secessionists when they continue to be flagged as propagating the most disgusting ideologies of hatred.”
“deep down this alliance is really composed of unpatriotic racists and anti-Semitics.”
… you’re not really calling us racist?
And as for intellectual cowardice, I’ve never deleted one of your posts, but have responded to each. That’s how debate works, my friend.
fellist on 06 Jul 2009 at 9:14 am #
HBII said: And as to the ideal size of a viable political entity, let’s not forget Singapore and Switzerland — both prosperous, human-scaled, and peaceful.
***
Yes, indeed. Nobel prize winning economist Gary Becker wrote a little article about this: http://www.becker-posner-blog.com/archives/2005/04/why_small_has_b.html
His conclusion is that:
economic consequences no longer discourage secessionist movements that are driven by hostility among different religious, ethnic, linguistic, and other groups. This explains the continued secessionist pressure in some countries, such as the recent call by the main leader in the Basque region of Spain for a referendum there on whether they should become more or less completely independent from the rest of Spain. They already have considerable autonomy, so this example shows that giving power to regions is an imperfect substitute for full independence. Political pressure remains strong among French Canadians for Quebec to become independent from the rest of Canada, although this sentiment is weaker than a decade ago as Canadian regions have received greater autonomy. Many Kurds in Iraq, Iran, and Turkey still dream of an independent Kurdistan. The Tamils in Sri Lanka, and different groups in Indonesia continue their fight for independence. And is it any surprise that most Taiwanese do not want to become part of a greater China, despite growing threats from China?
Mainly due to the growth of the global economy and globalized trading, the evidence is overwhelming that small nations can now do very well economically, perhaps better than larger ones. In light of this evidence, it is surprising how many people, including economists, continue to believe that their economies will be ruined if secessionist movements succeed.
roho on 06 Jul 2009 at 4:12 pm #
Vicksberg Mississippi refused to recognize the 4th Of July from 1865-1944. (Old feelings die slow.)……..Most of these celebrations with the exception of the Christian Hollidays are nothing more than an off day for all, so that the private sector doesn’t resent covering the cost for both his own off day as well as the Government Employee’s as well……………The “Neocons” need the holliday more than any, inorder to cloak it in patriotism tied to Empire.
Many like MLK day, I insist on working!
Harold Crews on 06 Jul 2009 at 9:50 pm #
I spent the 4th studying. The third I was at a joint political rally in Columbia sponsored by Campaign for Liberty, SCLOS, 9/12, Abate, Libertarian Party and other folks. I filmed it and look to have all of it on YouTube before long.
Weaver on 07 Jul 2009 at 7:03 am #
HarrisonBergeron2,
Singapore could never be fully sovereign and defensible.
Economically, a state must produce something within whatever economy it’s working within, and that leaves a vulnerability of the smaller states we’re referring to, especially as resources grow more scarce in the world. Microstates exist within a nonstatic economic system of other states.
Recorded in List’s The National System of Political Economy the English were able to destroy the Hansards due to the Hansards’s lack of autarky.
I’m not seeking to undermine secessionist ideology, but I do think people should be wary of getting carried away with it. Secession isn’t always best even if it’s best in many parts of America at the present time.
At the same time, List’s liberal/individualistic nation-state concept is less than ideal, but it approaches an ideal I think if somehow the local and the national are balanced (highly decentralised).
Weaver on 07 Jul 2009 at 7:17 am #
I’m not so interested in the political arrangement of things as just securing some part of the South that will endure and be well.
Sometimes it seems secessionists/localists get carried with “smaller is always better”, especially when the extreme capitalists (whatever you want to call them) spout unrealistic theories of every state trading freely as if all could be trusted. That type of claim might be useful for making a case, but no one should actually believe in it – history destroys the free trade case. There’s no founding in reality.
Weaver on 07 Jul 2009 at 7:31 am #
Fellist,
Will this be an enduring trend as resources grow scarce?
I very much like the idea of the Basque winning sovereignty, especially after what Franco did to them. But the Basque would be left at the mercy of surrounding states, and they would have to find some niche within the European economy, and that niche might change forcing them to locate another niche.
Kirt Higdon on 07 Jul 2009 at 2:12 pm #
It’s not apparent that resources, in the sense of usable resources, are growing scarce – indeed they are more abundant than ever. The current financial and economic depression omes not from scarcity of resources but from mismanagement arising from human greed at all levels. Misuse of human talent, the greatest resource, impacts other resources, but a wise use of human talent can make resources still more abundant.
HarrisonBergeron2 on 07 Jul 2009 at 2:32 pm #
“Singapore could never be fully sovereign and defensible.”
Eh? It’s one of the world’s most prosperous and politically stable countries. Its network of international trading links is the envy of the world. All without the crushing burden of a Pentagon, which it doesn’t need to be secure because its forces don’t roam the planet in search of monsters to slay.
Weaver on 07 Jul 2009 at 4:15 pm #
That’s only how it is now. The political power balance could change.
No. The world is approaching peak oil, peak copper, peak everything.
Weaver on 07 Jul 2009 at 4:24 pm #
It might be best for England to declare itself sovereign for example.
In each of the popular cases that comes to mind, I like the idea of secession. But at the same time, I don’t think the economic concerns are fairly assessed.
So, it’s not that I’m in disagreement – I’m just not as enthusiastic.
HarrisonBergeron2 on 07 Jul 2009 at 4:53 pm #
Weaver,
You’re posing legitimate questions, and no doubt they’re issues that must be tackled.
But I see the present system here in the US as unavoidably disastrous. The burden of empire is killing us, at home and abroad. At home, we’re importing the Third World as cheap labor and a more pliable electorate, thanks to affirmative action programs that subsidize mediocrity. Abroad, we’re squandering trillions in propping up an overseas hegemony that we can no longer pretend to afford.
Something’s gotta give!
Weaver on 07 Jul 2009 at 5:01 pm #
You could have a large degree of autarky and economy of scale within a fairly permanent set of allied states – at least in theory you could though squabbles would be expected.
England itself is a nation, and thus it wishes to be separate. So, economic issues aside, the survival and continuance of England is understandably paramount. However, England should be friendly with and concerned with issues of the other nations of the two main islands. And it ought to seek to secure sources for necessities from wherever it can. Trading finished goods that can be found no where else is a sort of leverage, but without such goods a state could find itself in a desperate situation.
The US military won’t be policing the world ensuring free trade forever, and thank God for that, but the political power balance will change as a result.
Kirt Higdon on 07 Jul 2009 at 5:06 pm #
Peak oil? Peak copper? Peak everything? The human race got along for most of its existence without copper and for almost all of its existence without petroleum. There are plenty of available substitutes for oil and copper and just about anything else you can name that is getting more expensive. This running out of everything is just Malthusian Club of Rome propaganda.
Weaver on 07 Jul 2009 at 8:40 pm #
“This running out of everything is just Malthusian Club of Rome propaganda.”
It’s a foreshadowing of the power struggles to come.
I’m a nationalist who values decentralisation, which is what I thought distributism was about until Dr. Fleming posted that that’s a misapplication of the word…
I’m not a believer in the localism some paleos embrace, but I do value defending heritage as it exists which can require secession and microstates where nations are small.
You might be more of a Kirkpatrick Sale localist I want to say? Just a guess. I’m more of a redneck who likes the South and is interested in whatever system is best for it. I’m not a localist so much as a Southerner – I don’t value all of the political traditions of the South, but I do value the South itself.
Weaver on 07 Jul 2009 at 8:53 pm #
Japan built itself up following List’s teachings, and Japan is especially amazing in that despite being wealthy it continues to be nationalistic. We fell to suicide upon gaining wealth and power, but Japan (from my outside vantage) wishes to live. It has few resources though, so it does have the potential to be squeezed should China or Russia choose to do so. And currently of course the US empire continues its evil occupation there.
Its right wing is admirable too, going by that article.
I oppose empire and colonies, but I acknowledge the validity of mercantilism. In a position of power, a Christian state or alliance or what have you could act fairly towards those it has relative power over.
In the ideal we might have a multipolar global order, but I don’t buy the localist dogma that the world can just split into tiny states and live happily ever after.
Weaver on 07 Jul 2009 at 9:05 pm #
Look at Iran. It’s a multiethnic artificial state, sure, but it’s at the mercy of Israel and the US because it’s simply far less powerful.
Great history is there, some of the earliest civilisations we’ve yet discovered, and these deluded Babelists, Zionists, war profiteers, and other opportunists might well crush it.
Putin it seems gains from having Iran crushed because oil prices will go up, and he’s certainly helped Iran with its nuclear power facilities.
So here is Iran, a medium-powered state at the mercy of men as evil as any in history. Power might have destroyed the West, but if you cast it off entirely you might risk having another take it up and destroy you with it.
roho on 07 Jul 2009 at 9:25 pm #
China’s Empire is just around the corner, to last longer than any. It’s simple numbers. When they reach the peak of economic power, as the Romans, Britain, and the U.S. did, they will have the manpower to sustain with 1.4 billion citizens to manipulate. They have become a creditor nation vs a debter nation, while keeping their people broke mentaly. Their industrial revolution is in it’s infantile stage, and the land mass for modern agriculture is endless. They have a homogenius identity, tied to a nationalistic pride that will indefinately repell both multiculturalism and diversity. Jewish Oligarths will be used until not needed, and then disposed of. PATIENCE and TIME is their strongest asset, and rooted in their culture vs instant gratification………….Putin understands this whether Washington DC does or not…….They are here to stay.
Weaver on 07 Jul 2009 at 11:03 pm #
China could explode though – it seems very much in a transition phase. China is not entirely homogeneous, though yea the Han Chinese majority is massive.
I’ve long been a fan of Japan, but Chinese nationalism comes across as imperialistic. WWII Japan was also so, but presently Japan is very insular.
You’re right about Putin – he continues to shout to deaf Western ears. But did you read the recent censorship laws prohibiting criticism of Soviet actions? That’s dangerous.
fellist on 08 Jul 2009 at 1:21 pm #
Smaller and less powerful states make up the vast majority of the world’s countries and between them control most of the water and oil. My country and yours, plus Israel, are pretty much the only major powers disinclined to respect these countries’ sovereignty and inclined to wage war for their resources. Will we take on the whole world, Weaver?
fellist on 08 Jul 2009 at 1:23 pm #
Have you got a link for Fleming’s comments on distributism, Weaver?
Weaver on 08 Jul 2009 at 4:17 pm #
Well, he used the word “Subsidiarity” which I’m pretty sure is a synonym. The emboldened part is what surprised me – I thought this in reverse with decentralisation being in the best interest of the state.
1
Weaver on 08 Jul 2009 at 4:30 pm #
Regarding taking on the world, in the ideal a state just ensures it has some desired good to trade for those resources it lacks and enough size to enjoy a decent economy of scale. Assuming England gets its act together and most of the rest of the world falls apart, England could find itself technologically among the leaders and thus with little competition for resources since it would benefit from the leverage given by superior goods.
And such an ideal state seeks out trade routes which someone’s navy will need to secure from piracy. I certainly don’t dream of bombing or reconstructing anyone.
And I certainly don’t dream of maximum efficiency. I simply think the localism can go too far and needs a little more wariness to it.
Anyway my primary concern is this: I understand the Celts don’t like the English and somewhat vice versa, but if Ireland imports 2 million Nigerians that will very likely affect England in the long run. There ought to be some shared concern for each other’s states.
Also, even though the Celts in general seem to be lazier and more socialistic and more hateful and pro-immigrant etc. than the English, they’re still very closely related and shouldn’t be seen as wholly alien peoples. I kinda suspect most of Britain is made up of Celt-English-Nordic hybrids. There’s a noticeable difference among them, but the difference isn’t all that great.
Weaver on 08 Jul 2009 at 4:34 pm #
In a case where a Chinese empire rises up to seek to replace the American empire, a balance of power would likely be desired to check this power if China were seeking to involve itself in Europe.
It’s very natural in the world for powers to balance each other like this, and an extreme localist ideology that refused to partake in such affairs might undermine such an alliance.
Presently we live in a world where NATO and the US are evil, unnecessary empires run amuck. But it’s possible that such alliances or even smaller alliances could be desirable for a power balance.
I realise that under the current situation such ideas will be unpleasant. I’m simply pointing out that the political environment is prone to change.
If there’s no bully super power about though, then there’ll be no need for an alliance like this. I’m not arguing for power and such but rather for the acknowledgment of the potential need for power.
T. Chan on 11 Jul 2009 at 6:45 pm #
Distributism is not the same as subsidiarity, though distributism does build upon subsidiarity as a principle — John Medaille gives a intro to distributism over at Front Porch Republic.