Does speaking out against a war constitute terrorism? These government goons think so:
FBI agents searched eight homes in Chicago and Minnesota on Friday as part of an investigation the law enforcement agency said related to “the material support of terrorism.” No arrests were made related to the raids, FBI spokesmen in Minneapolis and Chicago said….
The FBI did not release the names of the targets and said the search warrants were under seal.
Minneapolis peace activist Mick Kelly’s apartment was searched, and agents confiscated computer hard drives, his cell phone, writings, and his passport, Kelly and his lawyer said.
“It’s harassment at the highest level of those of us who have spoken out and tried to build an anti-war movement,” said Kelly, who helped lead marches during the 2008 Republican party convention in Minneapolis.
“It’s an attempt to trample on our right to speak out against U.S. intervention abroad. It’s outrageous on every level,” he said.
There’s a precedent for accusing critics of providing material support to the enemy — and of course, Abraham Lincoln set it:
After Congressman Clement Vallandigham of Ohio charged Lincoln with waging war “for the purpose of crushing out liberty and erecting a despotism” and “restrain[ing] the people of their liberties,” General Ambrose Burnside arrested him for “disloyal practice[s] affording aid and comfort to Rebels.” The arrest triggered a substantial outcry from Lincoln’s opponents and supporters alike….
Lincoln defended the arrest because he believed that Vallandigham “was laboring, with some effect, to prevent raising of troops [and] to encourage desertions from the army.” “Must I shoot a simple-minded soldier boy who deserts,” Lincoln asked, “while I must not touch a hair of a wily agitator who induced him to desert?”
In fact, Vallandigham had confined himself to general criticism of the war and of Lincoln and had not urged his audience to disobey the law.
To Lincoln, speaking out against his war was treason. We saw that same attitude in the early days of the Iraq War when Neocon David Horowitz demanded that anti-war protesters be prosecuted as saboteurs.
If we are to resist modern-day tyranny, we must repudiate Lincoln’s legacy, which claims the primary allegiance of all Americans is to the central government.
Kirt Higdon on 25 Sep 2010 at 1:23 pm #
One account I read of these raids stated that they were targeted against groups considered likely to lead demonstrations against the Democratic convention in 2012. The Bush gang used to conduct its anti-First Amendment raids a few days before Republican conventions. Obama goes for it almost two years in advance. The raids confiscated many “propaganda” related items, including not just the printed word and electronic media but such items as staplers and clothes. Clothes?! Of course, t-shirts often feature “propaganda” slogans.
The Feds were said to be looking for evidence of “material support of terrorism”. Keep in minds that a Supreme Court decision from last summer held that advising groups designated “terrorist” to pursue their objectives through peaceful means constituted “material support of terrorism”.
Meantime the leading purveyer of state sponsored terrorism continues his bombardment of Pakistani villages by drone aircraft and extends this terror campaign against Yemen. When it comes to death, destruction and imprisonment, Obama makes sure the USA is still number one.
HarrisonBergeron2 on 25 Sep 2010 at 1:35 pm #
Kirt Higdon,
Yeah, but torture isn’t torture, and terror isn’t terror when the Leader of the Free World orders it.
What was that Supreme Court decision you cite?
Kirt Higdon on 25 Sep 2010 at 1:55 pm #
Holder v. Humanitarian Law Project, handed down on June 21, 2010.
roho on 25 Sep 2010 at 4:31 pm #
Good Post!…..Americans need to recognize the systematic and organized destruction of the First Amendment by our ZOG.
When “Dubya” stated that the Constitution was nothing more than a gd piece of paper, there should have been a million Americans on the White House lawn the next day.(Demonstrating.)
HarrisonBergeron2 on 25 Sep 2010 at 7:43 pm #
Kirt,
Thanks! And since either the AG or President can name any person or group as terrorists for any reason, that ruling just increased the Fed’s arbitrary power.
Welcome to the American Police State.
HarrisonBergeron2 on 25 Sep 2010 at 7:45 pm #
roho,
I think most good Americans were too goofed up on war fever at that time to care about the Constitution.
Captainchaos on 26 Sep 2010 at 4:46 am #
“FBI raids Minneapolis homes of five antiwar activists”
Our side got the long end of the stick on this one (they were leftists, you understand). Let’s not look a gift horse in the mouth and the glass if half full, and all that.
Btw, were you serious about giving me a spinning kick to the balls, or whatever it was? I won’t believe it.
“Yeah, but torture isn’t torture, and terror isn’t terror when the Leader of the Free World orders it.”
Sure it is, er, I mean isn’t, when viewed through the in-group prism. But when not, one man’s terrorist is indeed another’s freedumb (chances are anyone who has enough conviction to terrorize ain’t exactly a libertarian, and we shouldn’t be fooled into thinking otherwise; also, as Kalb affirms, traditionalism not imposed is effectively self negationist: so then, as I parenthetically state not in satirical form, “freedom” is a mere buzzword for those to be taken seriously) fighter.
P.S. Feel free to triangulate against my positions for the benefit of the lemmings. Whatever moves the pigskin down the field.
Captainchaos on 26 Sep 2010 at 4:52 am #
“I think most good Americans were too goofed up on war fever at that time to care about the Constitution.”
The plasticity of their innate will to defend the ingroup was manipulated. What do I mean by plasticity? Well, for the Joos, the ingroup is always the Jooze. For the Whites, the ingroup is potentially at the conscious level whatever the Hebes say it is. Next, be prepared to welcome Koko the gorilla as your fellow Amurrican. Specism is vile and oppressive.
Ceecee on 26 Sep 2010 at 7:07 am #
Simply being against war is not, in itself, a sign that someone supports terrorism. Neither is working in the anti-war movement. There are plenty of people who get involved in such things out of a sense of pacifism, a desire to stick up for the underdog, or a desire to decrease the violence in the world. These people have a right to express themselves. They have a right to socialize with like minded people, forming organizations and doing activities that promote their ideas. None of this is terroroism.
Now, if someone plant a bomb, that’s a different story. If they send money to groups that kill and do terrorism, that, too, is different. Also marches organized by peacenik types can attract some people with less than peaceful motives. I know that.
But doesn’t there have to be some proof, some grounds for a search warrant, before the FBI can come into your house and look around? “He (or she) organizes peace marches,” isn’t a good enough excuse. If you’ve got probable cause on someone, by all means, get a search warrant and search them. But don’t do it just because they’re a peace activist.
Captainchaos on 26 Sep 2010 at 10:44 am #
“There are plenty of people who get involved in such things out of a sense of pacifism, a desire to stick up for the underdog, or a desire to decrease the violence in the world.”
Yawn.
The kind of people you describe are in all probability hippy-dippy humanists. The kind of people who aggressively desire the genetic amalgamation of our race with the detritus of the Turd World. I know, I’ve engaged in spirited debate with just that type. They experience the White race, with its attendant “white skin privilege”, as a dues ex machina of all non-White failure and misery. Their own people are to them the devil in their cosmic morality play in which they are the heroic redeemers. The “good Germans” that hid Jews in their cellars saving the latter from the ovens. Given that, of course they wish to extinguish our existence. Such narcissism and rank stupidity from people that are at least on paper intelligent enough to know better evokes little sympathy in me for them.
“These people have a right to express themselves.”
No. There are no “rights” which transcend in importance the very basis for those “rights” to exist as all, i.e., the continued existence of our people. For example, if a hypothetical White country were facing absolutely ruinous invasion in which the men would be killed on the spot, the male children likewise killed, and the women and girls taken into concubinage, would it be the “right” of any able bodied White man whatever to refuse to fight against that out of a conscience of pacifism? Of course not. He would justly be forced to fight or put up against the wall. If you agree to that, consonant with that scenario, you have already conceded that “rights” are not categorically inviolate.
The practical reason for our concern for the “rights” of these “peace activists” is that violations of said could boomerang back at us. Leave us vulnerable under similar pretexts. Those of us who are loyal and not driven to race treason by infantile fantasies. And that is the extent of it, not sympathy for trash.
HarrisonBergeron2 on 26 Sep 2010 at 2:11 pm #
Ceecee said, “doesn’t there have to be some proof, some grounds for a search warrant, before the FBI can come into your house and look around?”
That kind of thinking is SOOOO pre-9/11! Obama is simply applying the Bush Doctrine to law enforcement — we can’t wait until someone commits a crime; in the interest of national security, we have to stop them BEFORE they act!
HarrisonBergeron2 on 26 Sep 2010 at 2:14 pm #
Captainchaos,
With all that malevolent glossolalia, you could be Great Satan’s Girl Friend.
Steve Ryker on 26 Sep 2010 at 10:43 pm #
Shame on YOU, HB2. Everything CaptainChaos has written is not only True, it is literally Wisdom. You’re “Response” to his Remarks, “With all that malevolent glossolalia, you could be Great Satan’s Girl Friend,” only clearly demonstrates the emptiness and vacuousness of your mind, and the weakness of your position. You have “so much of Nothing” to say or write, all you can do in response is make low, ugly remarks that accomplish NOTHING, “show” NOTHING, and are only intended to hurt and to insult ad hominem. Truly POOR.
You have only succeeded in insulting yourself – remarks like those truly seem “beneath you,” based on what I’ve seen of your work in the past. I’m afraid that the greatest “insult” anyone can give you in this moment is simply to point out the Reality of, and about, YOU in this instance. Please understand that I get absolutely NO PLEASURE in writing these thngs about you – none.
We of “The Right” MUST take Franklin’s advice: We MUST all “stick together,” despite our differences, or as the News story of this Post makes ABSOLUTELY CLEAR, “we’ll ALL HANG separately.” Literally.
I understand that CaptainChaos’ “emotional language” is perhaps not very much “fun” to deal with. But in his defense, HE IS ONLY HUMAN. ALL of us are, and indeed can, show much emotion when hurt, irritated, threatened, etc, etc beyond a point. And I am afraid that he is absolutely correct. We who are “White,” fair-skinned people of European and, usually, Christian origins, ARE NOT ONLY DYING, WE ARE BEING DELIBERATELY DESTROYED BY BLACKS, JEWS, MUSLIMS AND, AT LEAST TO SOME EXTENT, ASIANS.
I have much more I would like to present in evidence in support of the Reality of what CaptainChaos and I seem to share in common. I shall return to this matter later this evening, immediately after addressing my responsibility to, and for, others. I hope to take this up again shortly.
HarrisonBergeron2 on 26 Sep 2010 at 11:31 pm #
Steve Ryker,
And I find CC’s attacks against Jews shameful. Add to that his continuous insults against the contributors to this site, and his insertion of race into EVERY post, no matter the topic, and you have a perfect storm of bad manners, crude language, and half-baked logic that deserves no tolerance whatsoever.
Put that in your “Reality” and smoke it.
Steve Ryker on 27 Sep 2010 at 1:32 am #
HB2:
“And I find CC’s attacks against Jews shameful.”
Why?
I mean that question genuinely & sincerely; please answer it to the best of your ability.
Captainchaos on 27 Sep 2010 at 1:57 am #
“And I find CC’s attacks against Jews shameful.”
You have no true awareness, then, whatever, of what is at stake and who are the perpetrators. Norman Podhoretz has written of his desire for total amalgamation of negroes and White Americans, all the while affirming his support of the Jewish racial nationalist state. His naked genocidalism towards our people for the perceived benefit of his own could not be more clear. The contrast could not be more clear. To pitch the issue at the level of “low taxes” and avoiding “foreign adventures” is a manifest disservice to your own. That is not what your enemies think it is about, even if you don’t care to see it, though they tell you in no uncertain terms. But no, you will not even think it, much less acknowledge it. Even to do that would be to soil yourself in uncouth uncleanliness. It is too horrible to believe. That, however, is hardly a refutation.
Thaddeus on 27 Sep 2010 at 7:12 am #
I’ve been reading this site for about a year, and I find Captainchaos’ comments correct 99% of the time — ESPECIALLY about the tribe. If anything, those aspects of his arguments are the most obvious and self-evident. I find it amazing that anyone could disagree.
I think his only drawback is style — a little more patience with the posts, a little more lucid writing style, would make his arguments even more compelling.
But everything he says about the fact that the tribe is the origin of the entire cultural Marxist religion that is destroying us is true, and quite obviously true.
HarrisonBergeron2 on 27 Sep 2010 at 4:21 pm #
Here are the facts:
1 – To condemn all people of a race or ethnic group is moronic. In this case, there are many Jews who oppose the murderous policies of the Israeli government and the Neocons here at home. Also, there are Jews who agree with us about the need to limit the power of government — Murray Rothbard, to name just one example.
2 – Hijacking a thread is poor manners and will not be tolerated.
3 – Those who don’t like these facts can start their own web site and rant and rave to their heart’s content — or get zapped as spam.
End of discussion.
roho on 27 Sep 2010 at 5:48 pm #
About 4-5 times a year, the ZOG raids some group of “Redneck Rangers” playing out in the countryside, with the full force of the Jewish owned MSM blowing the raid out of proportions. (Nowhere close to even being a paramilitary group, these guys have little formal training.)
Yet, here’s a group that most Americans do not even know exists?
http://www.kitatkonenutnewyork.org/about.html
Kirt Higdon on 27 Sep 2010 at 7:21 pm #
Most Americans don’t know that most of these groups exist. I had never heard of the Huttaree militia nor of the FRSO prior to the FBI raids against them and I have not previously heard of the KKNY. But no doubt the Feds know all about them and have plenty of informants on the inside. Hell, that Hassoun guy was surrounded by FBI snitches who provided him with the fake bomb and paid him $500 to plant it.
Captainchaos on 27 Sep 2010 at 9:11 pm #
“In this case, there are many Jews who oppose the murderous policies of the Israeli government and the Neocons here at home.”
But do these same Jews wish to end Israel’s existence as a homeland expressly for the Jewish people? No. Would they be opposed to the formation of an ethnostate that is expressly a homeland for White people? Of course. And why is that? Because, for them, White people are just another resource to be used up unto our genetic eclipse. And if you are not for the preservation of the White race, then that effectively is your position as well.
Captainchaos on 27 Sep 2010 at 9:26 pm #
“To condemn all people of a race or ethnic group is moronic.”
What is the hang-up here? That people of all races have “souls” and are “children of God” and are therefore entitled to be judged on the basis of their character irrespective of ancestral origin? Ethnocentrism is a universal evolved trait and a fact in the world. This means, that people are ineradicably disposed to favoring their own. Once the White race is eradicated ethnocentrism will still be around. So what, then, ultimately, does the eradication of the White race yield in the way of getting rid of judgements made about people not based solely on their character? Nothing whatsoever. Further, your child also has, I presume you think, a “soul”; he also has a more or less set character. Let us say that the neighbor’s child, who also has a “soul”, has a character which in the abstract you would be forced to concede based upon your own standards is superior to that of your own child’s. Will you then favor the neighbor’s child over your own? Of course not. Given that, why should you not favor members of your own race over members of other races irrespective of character and ensoulment?
Or is my reasoning too “tortured” for you?
Nate on 27 Sep 2010 at 10:43 pm #
These antiwar traitors deserve everything they have coming and then some. They should be tossed in GITMO and tortured until they talk. I am glad to see president Obama taking a hardlined stance against these treasonous cowards who blame America for 9/11. I do not like much of his liberal domestic policies and his foreign policy and he seems to be a little to kind to the terrorist nations in his rhetoric at times, but when it comes down to it he will do the right thing and fight terror wherever it may be found. This raid is a shining example of his commitment to American security and safety.
HarrisonBergeron2 on 27 Sep 2010 at 10:56 pm #
Nate (he who is at least on topic),
“Treason” is carefully defined in the Constitution: “Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.”
So far, there’ve been no witnesses, no court. When the descretion of the Temporary Dictator is sufficient to execute an American citizen, we’re living in a tyranny. And there’s no security or safety in a tyranny. As I’ve argued before, the Federal government is a greater threat to our liberty than all the peaceniks and Muslim wackos.
Nate on 27 Sep 2010 at 11:01 pm #
HarrisonBergeon2, The Constitution is not a suicide pact death document. I am with Thomas Jefferson and I want America to be an “Empire of Liberty” that speads our goodness across the globe.
HarrisonBergeron2 on 28 Sep 2010 at 12:43 am #
Nate,
This is a joke, right? Is this another GSGF impersonator?
RonL on 28 Sep 2010 at 6:25 am #
Why are we to assume that “anti-war” groups are peaceful? Communists using the antiwar movement are anything but. Don’t you remember the weathermen in the 1970s or the attack at the recruiting station at times square a few years ago?
If the Obama administration considers some leftists dangerous, they probably are.
HarrisonBergeron2 on 28 Sep 2010 at 1:27 pm #
RonL,
If Beloved Leader says it is so, it must be true.
Kirt Higdon on 28 Sep 2010 at 7:13 pm #
Nate seems to be trying to do a Stephen Colbert on us. Ron on the other hand, is serious but disingenuous. Based on his long standing adherence to the neocon/AIPAC line, what Ron has against these people is not that they are communist or leftist or dangerous or even that Obama says they are. It’s that they are sympathetic to the Palestinians.
RedPhillips on 28 Sep 2010 at 7:35 pm #
“we can’t wait until someone commits a crime”
Harrison, it’s called pre-crime. Get with the program.
Captainchaos on 28 Sep 2010 at 11:29 pm #
(sniffle, sniffle, weep, weep)
Some Reds got their heads cracked. All flags at half mast.
Kirt Higdon on 28 Sep 2010 at 11:39 pm #
Will marvels never cease? CC, he who preaches that race and genetics are the be-all and end-all of human existence, lines up with Obama and RonL against fellow white man Mick Kelly. Talk about strange bed-fellows, that’s a diversity threesome I never thought I’d see in the sack together.
Nate on 29 Sep 2010 at 6:34 am #
Tom Jefferson himself said he wanted America to be an “Empire Of Liberty” Look it up yourselves and don’t take my word for it. You paleos and libertoonians are just left wing progressives pretending to be conservative, when the reality is that you are a complete 180 from everything that is truly conservative.