Posted under Russia & Uncategorized
From the election returns a few weeks ago it is obvious from the the exit polling to the demographic breakdowns to the actual results themselves that the GOP has been established as the white, Christian party whether they like it or not. They can display all the tokens they want but we all know who is on the dollar bill.
So given this fact, why on earth do many Republican politicians still; regard Russia as the same enemy they were back in the Cold War? Why do they stare into the faces of the white Russians, whose golden domes of the Cathedral of Christ the Savior glistens in the Moscow sun, and only see the enemy.
Regardless of the merits of the START treaty, the opposition to it in the context of Russian relations is just baffling. Neocon opposition I can understand but not the opposition of everyone else on the Right.
Here’s a nation which can be a valuable ally, which suffers the same malignancy of Islamic terrorism and has sen seen many dead from it and is a nation which has similar historical traits as the U.S. in some areas.
Daniel Larison at Eunomia debunks a lot of arguments against a simple nuclear proliferation treaty and Pat Buchanan wonders why the GOP is risking a new cold war? But cynically I wonder if the Russians were Dispensationalists instead of Orthodox Christians, would their be such push back from the GOP. Such “other” Christians, particularly in Middle East, were offered no protection by the Bush Administration either in Iraq or in Israel (certainly not getting anything from the Obama Administration) despite the troubles U.S. foreign pyolic caused them. Orthodox Christians in Serbia and Macedonia were abandoned in the face of Albanian irredentism. Now Republicans in the Senate wish to do the same to another group of Orthodox Christians. I ‘d like to know the reasons why.
Bede on 23 Nov 2010 at 2:56 am #
Your concerns are completely logical. White Christians should be on good terms with Russia.
But the neocons still hate Russia for allegedly mistreating their ancestors and more recently for booting out corrupt oligarchs.
Patroon on 23 Nov 2010 at 3:31 am #
As I said, I can understand neocon hatred. The rest is just baffling. Its like they want a Cold War with someone to just all the money spent on red state socialism.
Remember, being Right, doesn’t always mean being conservative.
Bede on 23 Nov 2010 at 3:35 am #
Yes, the “right” is much older and more authentic (going back to the 19th century), whereas “conservatism” was invented by Buckley and Kirk in the 1950s.
Weaver on 23 Nov 2010 at 6:54 am #
Patroon,
most of these people know nothing about Russia. They certainly don’t know about Christians in Iraq. They’re told Russians are communists and opponents of Israel, and maybe that Russian communists use the Church to manipulate its people.
The GOP is the party of interest groups that target markets white, Christian voters. Similarly these megachurches just target the same people and insert a pro-Israel message.
Our institutions hate or are apathetic to America as to Christians in Iraq as to Christians in Russia. Bush is probably more of a unitarian in spirit than a Christian.
The media conditions us, and we think as the media directs us. Look at how Serbia was sold – that wasn’t Americans “choosing”. We fought “racist Serbians to defend dark Albanians”, or so the story goes. That’s what Americans believe. We weren’t programmed to see it as Christianity v. Islam, so we didn’t see it as such. Those who identify with the founders are especially susceptible to the mass media and government prop because they’re naively loyal to it. Minorities question it, though e.g. blacks are easily targeted by Obama
Btw, Russia might be having more children. The life expectancy is certainly higher.
Weaver on 23 Nov 2010 at 6:56 am #
I could be wrong, but I suspect even were Russians all Presbyterian, Americans would feel the same.
If France defies America’s government, America’ll be eating freedom fries again.
Weaver on 23 Nov 2010 at 7:22 am #
How do you expect a state that embraces mass immigration and free trade to act sensibly on Russia?
Or to put it another way: America serves its oligarchs.
You and Filmer are too populist. I know a lot of brilliant folks who simply never read. They take the expected positions on… everything. They’re high-paid, good workers; but politically they’re ignorant, unless getting pulled along by FOX News counts for anything.
RonL on 23 Nov 2010 at 7:26 am #
It has nothing to do with Russian revanchism and irredentism.
It has nothing to do with Russia invading Georgia and interfering with Moldova, and Ukraine.
It has nothing to do with Russian cyberwarfare against Estonia.
It has nothing to do with Russian aid for the Iranian nuclear program.
It has nothing to do with Russia cheating on the last START treaty.
It has nothing to do with limitation on missile defense or the new limitations of non-nuclear missile launchers. http://blog.heritage.org/2010/09/13/new-start-treaty-hurts-u-s-conventional-strike-capability/
It has nothing to do with Russia still being run by atheist KGB thugs.
No it clearly has to do with Jewish anger at the Czars.
It is rather pathetic to see people who call themselves paleoconservatives support treaty-based defense restrictions and get in bed with the Tranzis because neoconservatives join patriotic conservatives of all stripes in opposing this. Is your loyalty to the US or hatred of neoconservatives?
I’ve joked that if neoconservatives called Satan our enemy, certain paleocons and libertarians would tattoo pentagrams on themselves.
Weaver on 23 Nov 2010 at 7:45 am #
Ron,
When you say loyalty to the US, do you mean to the people or the government?
Many paleos are Catholic, so it’s natural they’d side with Eastern Orthodox. Protestants don’t think the same as do Catholics, at least not any longer. They wouldn’t side with other Protestants as readily either. They’re just different.
Kirt Higdon on 23 Nov 2010 at 11:47 am #
I think Ron’s post is an almost classic example of neo-con propaganda trying to pull the American people along for an essentially Trotskyite vendetta against Russia, also inspired in part by the treatment of the Jews under some of the Russian czars. But who in the hell are “Tranzis”?
RedPhillips on 23 Nov 2010 at 6:10 pm #
RonL, I think you know that we supported South Ossetian independence and were more sympathetic to Russia than Georgia in that conflict.
As I pointed out in one of Larison’s threads, I am inherently skeptical of New START because I am inherently skeptical of treaties in general. If we should decrease our arms, and I believe we should, I would prefer that we do so because we realize we don’t need them, not because we sign a treaty that forces us to.
I am not niave about Russia, but broadly speaking we should seek to make Russia an ally and not an enemy. This attitude of belligerence is counterproductive except for people who have some stake in maintaining Cold War antagonisms. (The military industrial complex.) We have a lot of allies who are less than perfect.
Weaver on 23 Nov 2010 at 7:21 pm #
Those who have a stake in maintaining Cold War antagonisms are transnational too. And Russia resists the “American” transnational hegemony. That’s not to say Russia’s oligarchs are any better – just a different lot. Russia overall though the US has common interest with. The US should give up seeking hegemony there.
Ron,
Israel is very significant in the Russia v. America foreign affairs. This isn’t because “Jews are angry at the czars.” And as Gottfried likes to say: the GOP is neocon, meaning they have a strong influence there.
Evangelicals readily support Israel. They might not care about other evangelicals, but they’re fully behind Israel.
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American liberalism readily opposes white Christians, as it did in Serbia. It saw in them Nazis, and so it attacked. The obsession with Nazis might be due to Jews in America (we never hear about the communists or Japanese), but that’s an indirect link, and I didn’t even mention it.
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Kirt,
“But who in the hell are “Tranzis”?”
I think he was referring to my post which mentions Israel several times. Israel’s pretty dang important in American foreign affairs though, haha. Eric Cantor (GOP House Majority leader) even promised allegiance to Israel…
I guess tranzis are eugenic obsessed NS?
James on 23 Nov 2010 at 9:11 pm #
It’s just insanity, pure insanity. White American Protestants, who make up the core base of the Republican Party, are utterly ignorant of the world, utterly ignorant of Christian history and utterly ignorant of Christian theology. There are more sincere, committed Christians in Russia today than in the United States, but somehow we are supposed to see them as an enemy? Why? Because they’re the “Russians?” The Republican Party has just become the absolute domain of mindless stupidity in hawking this anti-Russian lie.
Ceecee on 23 Nov 2010 at 9:25 pm #
You idiots! Don’t you know that the minute you use the word “white” in the contrext that you use it, the message becomes one of exclusiveness. My African-American, Hispanic, Native American, and Asian friends won’t feel like they belong to the people you’re talking to. Maybe they don’t.
But guess what. This country is a melting pot. We all have to work together to make the society work. That means we all belong, no matter what our color or ethnic ancestry. If the Republican party is going to work, and win elections, it’s going to have to attract and include people of all colors and backgrounds.
Try a little racial sensitivity next time you write something, OK.
Matt Weber on 23 Nov 2010 at 9:37 pm #
It just doesn’t seem entirely accurate to describe the tea parties or the Republicans as ‘white’ or ‘representative of whites’. I see the tea parties as a representation of a particular ethnicity within America, one that is almost wholly made up of whites. By stating it in terms of ethnic conflict, we take account of the fact that there are a whole bunch of whites in America virulently opposed to everything the tea party stands for.
On Russia, I think there’s a few factors at work. One is that Republicans are idiots with no ideas beyond opposing Obama. Two is that a lot of the federal government is still made up of people who were around for the Cold War, and anti-Russian sentiment will eventually die off when generations who never considered Russia a threat come to power. Three is that the warfare state really needs an enemy, and people are becoming disillusioned with terrorism in that role. Russia is a good fit, as most of the defense establishment was created to fight them.
Bede on 23 Nov 2010 at 9:58 pm #
Ceecee: “My African-American, Hispanic, Native American, and Asian friends”
Your circle of friends must resemble one of those diversity posters that hangs at universities and corporations. Do you all hold hands like the people in the poster? Just curious.
Weaver on 23 Nov 2010 at 10:31 pm #
The Scientist as Rebel by Freeman Dyson.
Kirt Higdon on 23 Nov 2010 at 11:21 pm #
“I guess tranzis are eugenic obsessed NS?”
I was thinking they might be transexual Nazis (trannies + Nazis). Maybe Ron will be back to enlighten us.
RonL on 24 Nov 2010 at 8:44 am #
Tranzi is short for Transnational Progressive. I apologize for using the inflammatory shorthand, even if people could simple have googled it. I think most people here would be interested in John Fonte’s seminal article
“Liberal Democracy vs. Transnational Progressivism: The Future of the Ideological Civil War Within the West” http://www.hudson.org/files/publications/transnational_progressivism.pdf
Weaver,
I mean mean loyalty to the American government and Constitution.
Kurt,
Did you read a single one of my arguements before calling my a neoconservative? Try to answer at least one. Man up.
Red,
Would you support independence for the people’s Russia has conquered including Mordvins, Karelians and Suomi (Finns), Saami (Laps), Komi-Permyaks, Chud-Udmurts, Mari, Tatars, Bashkirs, Volga Bulgars, Adyghe/Circassians (and related), Yakut/Sakha, Buryats (Northern Mongols), Kalmyk (Western Mongols), Kumyks, Evens, etc.
Weaver,
If Jews, as Jews dominated liberalism, liberals would care about Muslim ties with the Nazis and the world-wide goals of Jihadis. They don’t. The reason they bring up Nazis is to club Whites and increasingly Israel.
PS. Stop reading the rants of communist “Jews” on the Cantor-Netanyahu meeting. It was a pretty standard meeting where Cantor said that Obama was domestically weakened.
James,
How is opposing a bad treaty, which undermines our security, hatred of the Russian people?
Matt Weber,
Isn’t China a better enemy than Russia?
Weaver on 24 Nov 2010 at 1:33 pm #
When the Constitution became living, the US fell under rule by men rather than rule by laws.
It’s patriotic to oppose the government in a civil manner when it acts in an anti-American manner such as Russian foreign policy. The government isn’t infallible.
Fukuyama was surely speaking exoterically in ’89, though he officially changed his stance in 2002 (biotech book). I didn’t learn of him until Williamson’s The Conservative Bookshelf, though.
I do look forward to reading the article.
Kirt Higdon on 24 Nov 2010 at 3:57 pm #
“Kurt,
Did you read a single one of my arguements before calling my a neoconservative? Try to answer at least one. Man up.”
Arguments? What arguments? You just made a series of unsupported assertions, some of them vague, questionable or flat-out untrue, and almost all of them irrelevant to whether or not the US should ratify the START treaty or to US/Russian relations in general. If you want an argument answered, try making one.
I guess I should have recognized the word “tranzi” from the futuristic novel Caliphate, which is of interest mainly as an example of an anti-Moslem rant thinly disguised as a science fiction action tale. But now I have looked up “tranzi” and “transnational progressive” and have discovered (not to my surprise) that there are apparently no people who call themselves by these names. In other words, these are terms of abuse, pure and simple.
RedPhillips on 24 Nov 2010 at 5:06 pm #
“Red,
Would you support independence for the peoples Russia has conquered including…”
In general yes, of course I would, if they desire independence. I would want to know the details of each situation before pronouncing my support across the board, but broadly speaking I support independence and secession movements. I am certainly not a Russian nationalist, so I would have no stake in maintaining some sort of “Greater Russia.”
Weaver on 24 Nov 2010 at 5:24 pm #
Putin on secession.
I think Red’s position is perfect though:
“I would want to know the details of each situation before pronouncing my support across the board”
Bruce on 27 Nov 2010 at 6:00 pm #
CeeCee,
Sorry, the melting pot is not melting anymore.
Go to the mall and notice all the signs now in Spanish.
Notice how many people are here now that continue to speak Spanish.
When did we vote to become a third world banana republic ?
Are we still a republic or are the unconstitutional czars and federal agencies making the rules now ?
Weaver on 28 Nov 2010 at 12:31 am #
I’m not a melting pot guy myself, but how is that even possible now?
Immigration by the Numbers — Off the Charts
The living standard within this country is set to plummet, among other things.
JamesTheJust on 30 Nov 2010 at 7:58 am #
I am surpried that the most obvious reason why Republicans in general and conservative in particular do not accept a close relationship with Russia — religion.
Many people confuse true Christianity with JEW-deo Anti-Chritianity.
The former are simple people who place their trust in “GOD”, while the latter are lovers of Anti-Christs and have about as much understanding of scripture as a Zulu does of nuclear physics.
Prophesy! Its all about prophecy with those loons (or at least their total misunderstanding of prophesy)
The great battle of Armageddon from Gog and Magog…
This is supposed to come out of Russia and it is true that the invasion of Gog/Magog comes from that general area, but that invasion started long ago.
The Khazar “jews” come from that area and Israel (the nations of the West) are already infiltrated. Soon, the Talmudic jew believes, they will wipe out the White race (whom THEY KNOW are the true Israelites of old).
But you’d never convince the JEW-deo Anti-Christians. They are so damned blind that they actually believe a group of mixed race bastards, who infiltrated the White nations with perverse sex, overflowing borders, drugs, slavery, usury and EVERY ILL the nations of the West face, are some damned god’s chosen people.
The non-jew Zionists will have to be removed when the jew is removed. They are guilty of high treason. The punishment for high treason is death.
Without an understanding of ancient history, one can never understand the present. My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.
Weaver on 02 Dec 2010 at 12:25 pm #
Wikileaks: Russia branded ‘mafia state’ in cables
The thing about that is, Russia was already corrupt before Putin came to power. Is he “winning” against the oligarchs, or has he become one of them? That’s the great unknown it seems.
He’s not fully loved by Russian nationalists, though they seem to like him alright (he could be much worse).
Oh Dear…Why is the white, Christian party attacking a white Christian nation? | Conservative Heritage Times « Yahyasheikho786's Blog on 02 Dec 2010 at 4:55 pm #
[...] Why is the white, Christian party attacking a white Christian nation? | Conservative Heritage Times. [...]
Weaver on 03 Dec 2010 at 2:44 pm #
WikiLeaks: Russian mob laundered $10b with Israeli assets
Ceecee on 12 Feb 2011 at 7:22 am #
You people are all a bunch of bigoted asses. I think your mother knew her first cousin a little too well. That’s why your brain doesn’t work right and you’re so easily influenced by racist ideas.