Posted under Election 2012 & Interventionism & Ron Paul
Ron Paul is taking some heat for his statements on the Osama bin Laden raid. He shouldn’t be, but the Paul haters will use every opportunity they can to attack Paul and mischaracterize his positions. Paul is essentially saying that we should have gotten Pakistan’s, a sovereign nation, permission first. This is an entirely reasonable position, so all the Paul haters can spare me the feigned outrage.
See here. (Notice the 400+ comments although it is also about Newt’s support for an individual mandate.)
And here. (Note 246 comments at the time of this post.)
Here is my comment on the first article:
Mr. Kaminsky is playing dumb for the sake of attempting to score points against Ron Paul. Paul didn’t say anything different on Sunday than he said in his previous statement so spare me the feigned shock and outrage.
Pakistan is a sovereign nation and ostensibly an ally. Of course we should have asked their permission before conducting a raid into their country. Does Canada or Mexico or whoever get to perform raids into America without asking our permission first? If they did the same people bleating about Paul would be outraged at such a breach of our sovereignty as well they should be. Either the rules apply both ways or they don’t apply at all.
And spare me the act as if Ron Paul’s foreign policy views are not already well know and a (probably the) major reason people who love him love him and people who hate him hate him. He will do no worse or no better in Iowa and SC than he would have done before this statement. In fact, had he said he approved of a raid into a sovereign nation without their permission he would have taken grief from his non-interventionist supporters.
Dave K on 17 May 2011 at 12:40 am #
Exactly. I hope the issue does come up in the debates and this is how I would like to see Mr. Paul reply. ” If I had been President after 9/11 I would have taken the Taliban’s offer to hand over bin Laden and spared this country the war in Afghanistan entirely.” I don’t think most Americans are aware that the war in Afghanistan was a war of choice (unjustified) just as was the war in Iraq.
RonL on 17 May 2011 at 5:08 am #
Red,
Ron Paul’s assertion that Pakistan is an ally and that we could have just asked once again shows detachment for foreign policy reality. OBL was not hanging out in a remote Pashtun village but in a suburb of the capitol, in walking distance of its military academy. The idea that OBL could be in one of the most secure location is Pakistan without the complicity of the government or large sections of the military is absurd
Pakistan is not a dependable ally. The ISI created the Taliban and has protected Al Qaeda The irony is that if Ron Paul actually cared about our troops leaving Afghanistan, he would play up this reality. Instead, he carps about the sovereignty of a nation that protects our enemies, while receiving billions in aid.
DAve K,
The Taliban never offered Bin Laden. We asked them and they chaose to protect their ally and benefactor.
Ole Johansen on 17 May 2011 at 12:17 pm #
@RonL
If I remember it correctly,Taliban asked for proof that Bin Ladin was responsible for the attack,and your Goverment wouldn’t or couldn’t.
George Washington on 17 May 2011 at 3:56 pm #
Very good post. Thank You author.
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RedPhillips on 17 May 2011 at 4:16 pm #
Ole, is right that the Taliban asked to see our evidence and we refused. Whether they would have turned him over if we showed them sufficient proof is speculation. For a country to want to see the evidence before turning someone over doesn’t seem unreasonable on the surface, but it would be naive to trust the intentions of the Taliban.
Ron, if Pakistan was harboring ObL, which isn’t an unreasonable assumption if the Administration’s story is true, then they might have been doing so to keep the aid flowing. But for the record, I do not accept the Administration’s story uncritically, nor do I reject it out of hand. I thought, and MUCH of the foreign policy and intelligence community thought, that ObL had been dead for a while. When I first heard we had killed him, I was immediately skeptical, but I am not nearly convinced enough to claim dogmatically that the Admin’s story a fraud.
Dave K on 17 May 2011 at 8:26 pm #
RonL,
According to news reports the Taliban did offer to hand over bin Laden to an Islamic Court in Pakistan since they did not have an extradition policy with the USA, and the USA was not providing any proof of his guilt. It is even reported that that bin Laden agreed to this! The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were unnecessary morally speaking (which makes them unjust) but requisite if the USA was to maintain global hegemony and police the world.
Jared on 19 May 2011 at 2:43 am #
People who see no issue with what the US did in the raid to assassinate OBL in Pakistan simply believe that the US empire gets to make its own rules, and there is no need to respect the sovereignty of other nations. The actions of the US in this instance could only be plausibly justified if it was at war with Pakistan, which of course isn’t the case (yet).
RonL on 19 May 2011 at 5:05 am #
The Taliban protected Bin Laeden after the African Embassy bombings.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=x4c1AAAAIBAJ&sjid=jyUMAAAAIBAJ&pg=1399,3208464&dq=taliban+trial+bin+laden&hl=en
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/newsday/access/73449813.html?dids=73449813:73449813&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=May+31%2C+2001&author=COMBINED+NEWS+SERVICES&pub=Newsday+%28Combined+editions%29&desc=Taliban+Decries+Bomb+Verdict+%2F+Vows+never+to+release+bin+Laden+to+the+U.S.&pqatl=google
Despite sanctions from the UN and OIC, they never considered asking their allies in Al Qaeda to leave.
As for proof, Bin Laden boasted of his attacks on the US. Don’t understand why some people are desperate to find any conspiracy other than the open one between Al Qaeda, the Taliban, and the ISI.
roho on 19 May 2011 at 4:52 pm #
LOL!…….OBL has been a CIA Asset from the begining. If that man was actually Bin Laden, he was in a prison with no weapons, until the right time to kill him for political reasons. Hell, his brother died at the Crawford Bush Ranch long ago, and the two families were close. Just another hoax played on the gullible American, in the long term plan to encircle Russia……………….Only in America can a sitting President bomb some country the same week his semen is found on a Monica Lweinski’s dress………..Nothing ever changes.
For Sheep.